Religion: I want a pc game not a PC game.

[Odin]

Originally posted by aneeshm
But again , this is a game . Why not have a system whereby a religion gains characteristics based on how the states having that religion behave ?

This is actually a very good idea, the religions get bonuses, but they arn't predetermined, so no stereotyping issues.

[Odin]

Oh, and Confuscianism is not a religion, it's a philosphy. It should be replaced with Zoroastrianism

[MxM]

I think they did trade the gameplay depth for PC. You could have more interesting game if you have more choses.

It is strange to me to see that NO ONE has any objections to the traits that countries have, yet there are some who think that for PC traits should not be allowed for religion.

Here is a way to give traits to religions with less PC problems. Suppose that religions can have exactly the same traits that countries have (like spiritual, industrious and so on). When you accept the religion as your state religion, you can chose one trait from the limited list of say 2 or 3 traits. This list can be different for different religions. This way for Islam you can give a choice between, say, expansive, creative and spiritual. And you chose yourself depending on what you want, or what you think of Islam.

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by MxM
It is strange to me to see that NO ONE has any objections to the traits that countries have, yet there are some who think that for PC traits should not be allowed for religion.

We had that discussion back in Civ 3 and it went on a long time. Personally I much prefer the way it was done in a Call to Power mod, where players had the option to choose to adopt a special bonus when they reached a key tech. So you didn't start the game knowig your archers were going to be longbowmen because you were English, but it becomes your bonus if you pick it at the appropriate time.

[MxM]

So, did people object for civilizations to have different traits, because it is not PC? As I remember the discussion was mostly about gameplay aspects.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Odin
Oh, and Confuscianism is not a religion, it's a philosphy. It should be replaced with Zoroastrianism

[Reader81]

I kind dont like random found, since I dont want Buddhist or Confucian or Hindu, I always want Found Christian, I done this every time I played, but of coure I dont want more than one or two found Religion. But Random found religion, no thank you.

[Matthew]

Historically religious nenants have had a strong influence on behavoir. Granted, this has at times been in ways expressly contrary to those religious beliefs. Of all religions in the Roman empire before christianity, to my knowledge judaism was alone in its unwillingness to share the religious devotions of its adherents. The Romans, for example, didn't care what people worshiped, as long as they gave due homage to Roman gods. This was only a problem for the Jews, and later Christians. And while Jesus did not teach anything that would condone enforcing christianity by the sword, the persecutions that people calling themselves christians often wroght on others had at least something to do with the idea that christianity was the one true faith. The mercy that the muslims showed to their ememies when they conquered Mecca, and the tolerance towards christians and jews (at least when compared to christian europe) had a lot to do with the teachings of the Koran.

I don't think that Hinduism was purposely spread by the sword, but tenants of hinduism certainly influenced warfare.

I don't think that there would be anything wrong with different bonuses being associated with religions.

One problem is that one or two civs may well be the first to discover a whole host of religions. Of course this only matters if you really like shrines.

[MxM]

Originally posted by Reader81
I kind dont like random found, since I dont want Buddhist or Confucian or Hindu, I always want Found Christian, I done this every time I played, but of coure I dont want more than one or two found Religion. But Random found religion, no thank you.

I think it could be random trait instead. But I still would rather limit the possible traits for different religions.

[kaigun]

Originally posted by mgdpublic
Well can Hindus at least not be able to get food bonuses from cows?

and Catholics a boost to disease ...and lower diplomatic ratings because they preached washing was sinfull for a few hundred years plus...and many i meet here seem to keep those old religious values.

[Tesla101a]

I understand why they did it that way, and I'm not upset about it. Maybe if there is enough demand for certain religious bonuses, someone will just make a mod for it. The game's supposed to be heavily modable, right?

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Glad to see that you agree with me

[Martinus]

Originally posted by murielwasser
More specifically, it would be stupid not only because of unneccessary offensiveness, but because the "traits" we associate with most religions are particular to their historical developments and not the religions ex origio themselves. If you looked at the Bible and compared the Old and New Testaments you'd expect Judaism to be a religion of barbaric warmongers and Christianity to be a religion of strict pacifists. But that would fail to describe how people actually following those religions behave. You'd expect Buddhist countries to lead the scientific revolution because Buddhism is founded upon rational analysis - but a part of the world dominated by revealed religions did.

Note also that currently the (post-)Christian world is more advanced than the Islamic world whereas a millenium ago the opposite was the case.

So the politically correct position here is - as it usually is - the factually correct one as well.

Precisely.

Take Christianity for example - you would be hard pressed to decide whether it should give bonus to unit power against unbelievers (medieval crusade-era Christianity), motivate people to great works by adding production bonus (baroque era catholicism), embrace ascetism and industriousness by reducing effect of theatres but increasing effect of forges and the like (Dutch calvinism) or increase conversions (Spanish inquisition).

Likewise, with Islam, you could have the culture and science bonus (Al-Andalus) or military bonus (Jihad-era), vary between religious tolerance of Almohads and religious intolerance of modern day Saudis.

As it is now, you can have all these types of Christianity or Islam in game by choosing Organized Religion, Pacifism or Theocracy - and same goes for other religions.

[LzPrst]

I posted this before on another thread in the mod or strategy section, but I'll say it once more. giving different religions advantages and disadvantages makes for a slightly more interesting game, but the fallout is just not worth it. the fighting and arguing will never end. and it creates stereotypes. stereotypes are BAD. if the egyptians can conquer the mongolians and the malinese smash america, why cant france be hinduist and india jewish? I think the way they handled religion to be the best possible way to do it. perhaps some would disagree, cause they consider all religions not to be equal and I agree, they're not. they focus on different aspects of life (or death) and affect society in various ways. BUT in civ4 you can make that happen with civics. wanna be a holy crusading\jihadic conquest empire? get theology and vassalage.
want to be a peaceloving pacifist? get pacifism and whatever else suits your fancy.
with a touch of roleplaying, which makes civ much more fun, you define how taoism, judaism etc is in the particular development of the world you play

For example. I play the glorious russians. My barbaric nomads settle down in the fierce jungles by the great river that runs through greenland, cause its so green... I then invent judaism and decide that it has a profound impact on all my people, so I build lots of missionaries and judanize my entire civ. I then meet hindu France, the wackos are into slavery and I cant accept such atrocities. So I develop into a strict theoacracy and build barracks in all my cities. Now the french shall know the power of the one god... etc etc.
Later I invent Islam and decide that I'm done fighting, so I convert to pacifism. und so weiter!

thats the glory of it. you decide what that particular religion is about through your acts and civics. if you play a little with it it will be all the more fun.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Martinus
Take Christianity for example - you would be hard pressed to decide whether it should give bonus to unit power against unbelievers (medieval crusade-era Christianity), motivate people to great works by adding production bonus (baroque era catholicism), embrace ascetism and industriousness by reducing effect of theatres but increasing effect of forges and the like (Dutch calvinism) or increase conversions (Spanish inquisition).

you forgot us orthodox. we would contribute a -1 productivity penalty.