Religion: I want a pc game not a PC game.

[Kuciwalker]

Also, Europa Universalis is not aimed at the general public, but rather targets a very particular demographic that will often understand the context and reasons for those bonuses.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Odin
The Inquisition has nothing to do with the Holocaust.

You're not getting my point.

My point is that the people objecting aren't going to be rational. You keep insisting that their complains would be irrational... well OF COURSE! That's the whole point.

Computer games are made by companies concerned about their bottom line and thus concerned about controversy. They will try to avoid it where possible. Poking a stick at this particular hornet's nest is not something I would expect of them.

Avoiding controversy, of necessity, is an exercise that involves accomodating the irrational.

The point is that selecting out a single religious group in a city for elimination (nevermind if someone selected the Jews in particular) is *GOING* to bring up comparisons to the Hollocaust. This will lead to absolutely nothing but trouble for the developer and the publisher. The actual historical context or realism are totally irrelevant if they're trying to avoid controversy.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker I disagree. I strongly believe that the particular tenets of a religion are merely used as (unconscious) rationalizations of social values, rather than any social values being derived from the tenets of the religion. The issue is that most historical societies that were distinct in terms of values and customs were largely of the same religion. However, I do not think that the theology of the religion itself had any influence.

A fair argument. As I stated myself, it would be difficult to untangle a society from the purported social impacts of its religion in order to create religious effects independent of the society. That said, I'd differ with you on whether religious theology has social impact - I believe it can and does.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Not even that. Societies are different. Religions are not. Fundamentalists are the same all over.

Religions very definitely are different . Practice differs widely , too . How can you account for the fact that Hinduism has never practiced the sort of aggression ( both external , against other religions , and internal , against differing sects ) that Islam has ? How is it that a competing religion like Buddhism could spread peacefully in India , while all such movements were persecuted , driven out , or killed under Islam ?

[aneeshm]

But again , this is a game . Why not have a system whereby a religion gains characteristics based on how the states having that religion behave ?

[Reader81]

Religion in this Game
We know that people have extremely stong opinions about religions-in fact, many a war has arisen when these beliefs collide. We at Firaxis have no desire to offend anyone, However, given the importance that religions have had in human development, instead we have tried to handle them in as respectful,fair and even-handed manner as possible. (All religions in the game have the same efects, the only difference being their technological requirements.)

There are seven religions in Civilization IV (testing having determined that seven is the optimal number for gameplay). When determining which seven to include, we picked those religions that we thought would be most familiar to our audience. We do not mean to imply that thoese religions are more important, better or worse than any other religions.

We offer no value judgments on religion: we mean no disrespect to anyone's beliefs. We're game designers, not theologians. - Civilization IV Manual, page 77

[Kingof the Apes]

While I think that giving religion specific benifits would not improve the game, I would like to see an option to purge cities.

I don't, however, agree with the method of founding of religions (researching tech x will give you religion y).

Instead, I believe that when a religious tech is researched (polytheism, mysticism, etc) a religion should be randomly selected or user selected from an expanded list. Or, have the player name the religion. A Great Prophet should also be able to found a religion.

A seven religion cap should be kept, of course, to preserve game balance.

This is mostly a cosmetic change, but I feel it would greatly improve the atmosphere of the game. Imagine playing as the Persians, and discovering theology. Instead of founding a preset religion, you could go for a historically accurate desicion and go with Zoroastrianism, or go with the comedy option and create a nation of zealous Scientologists.

[markusw7]

Originally posted by GTPoompt
Europa Universalis series has different bonii for being a different religion, and there was no outrage over that.

If you look at the attachment you will see it in no way has bonuses such as better at fighting x religion, likes killing things (which would be bonuses that would anger people). If religion in civ4 gets bonuses it should be random, when a religion is founded it gets one bonus from a list of bonuses randomly.

[mgdpublic]

Originally posted by Mr. President
It makes for an interesting imagination exercise trying to figure out how the heck America could become a Hindu theocracy in 800 AD (or how the heck America exists at all in 800 AD).

Plus it leaves the door open to make a mod where you replace the religion names with names of gods and religions from Dungeons and Dragons (Talos, Lathander, Tempus, etc).

Ooooo! Ooooo! Be sure to make a Temple of Elemental Evil wonder and a Great Person named Otiluke and a UU all carrying Mordenkainen's Swords.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Religions very definitely are different . Practice differs widely , too . How can you account for the fact that Hinduism has never practiced the sort of aggression ( both external , against other religions , and internal , against differing sects ) that Islam has ?

Given India's behavior that doesn't really seem to be the case.

How is it that a competing religion like Buddhism could spread peacefully in India , while all such movements were persecuted , driven out , or killed under Islam ?

Differences in society, not in theology.

[mgdpublic]

Well can Hindus at least not be able to get food bonuses from cows?

[RGBVideo]

I finally got around to the religious aspect of the game and was going over the various choices and realized sadly that it just didn't matter. We need a religious mod!

What kind of properties do you have in mind for that mod?

Not even that. Societies are different. Religions are not. Fundamentalists are the same all over.

I disagree. I strongly believe that the particular tenets of a religion are merely used as (unconscious) rationalizations of social values, rather than any social values being derived from the tenets of the religion. The issue is that most historical societies that were distinct in terms of values and customs were largely of the same religion. However, I do not think that the theology of the religion itself had any influence.

Given India's behavior that doesn't really seem to be the case.

Kuci, ehh... I've been following your very informed history-related posts with great interest ever since you joined, and I just want to say:

You're clueless. Stfu.

[Kuciwalker]

[Akaoz]

The only think I'd like to see in a mod is some sort of drawback for multiple religions in the same city and a way to oust a religion from a city.

Can buildings be set up so that they trigger certain effects if another building shows up? (E.g.: Say you have a Hindu temple and build a Jewish temple, can this trigger a negative effect? And would the AI "get it"?)

[pmaura]

And since were on about being PC how about how spys are nerfed. Cant poison water supplies, or palnt nukes.

Imagine an Uproar when you can create a muslim nation that uses spys to bomb a christian one.