Is it just me?

[alva]

So what do you think is the difference between those with ATI cards that dont work and those that do? Clearly it's not just the ATI cards.

ATI bug. Something about some of their cards not being able to handle large files.

[q="Sirian"]3. Folks who have one of the afflicted ATI Graphics cards. These cards are having an issue with properly handling a very large graphics file (the Art PAK file) and that is a shortcoming on only certain models of ATI cards (the ones with 256MB of video RAM, I think). The Firaxis team tracked down this hardware problem in ONE DAY and a solution is already available, which breaks the pertinent file in to smaller chunks so that even these ATI cards that are having trouble can process the art assets correctly. (Most ATI cards, and all other supported cards, can handle the large file just fine!) Folks with these cards can implement the solution now, if they follow instructions posted at the Take 2 support site, or they can wait for a patch that will be out within a week or two that will do it for them.[/q]

[tezster]

Originally posted by SpencerH
My game hasnt arrived yet and I'm wondering if I should install it. If I open the package they may not take it back. If I send it back it'll cost me money. If the installation fails (I have an ATI 9800) I may either waste hours trying to get the game to work or worse yet waste hours and screw up my pc so that I have to do even more work to get back to square one.

Clearly this is a worse debacle than civ3.

I'm running the game on a 9500 pro and haven't encountered a single problem. In fact, the only reason I'm even aware of this "ATI" issue is through this board.

I think you're only allowed to jump on the 'CIV4 is a debacle bandwagon' if you run into problems yourself

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Whats that saying? 'You pays your money, you takes your chances!' Or something along those lines.
I have spent a frustrating weekend trying to play Doom3 (whilst waiting for civ4 of course ) and spent most of the time having to reload my computer-because it couldn't even get past my opening screen (even though I have above the required specs). Now, do you see me *****in', belly-achin' and sending a bill off to Activision for my lost time? No, because I realise that hardware and software are funny critters, particularly where 3D comes into it. Instead, I simply sent a letter to Activision support-along with my specs-and am now patiently awaiting the solution to my problems. If I have a similar problem with Civ4, I will do the same with Firaxis/Take2.
Now, were the game to be simply crap and silly-THEN I might have major issues. However, in spite of 1 or 2 things which I am a little worried about (no Great Wall or ToE for instance) overall I think I am gonna LOVE this game-far more than Civ3: Conquests!!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

You're obviously more patient than I am with respect to software problems. I cannot believe that not one of the beta testers had an 256 MB ATI card (based on what Alva said below). Something is fishy.

As for conquests, well it was the first civ game that I didnt purchase or play. I think civ4 will be a great game (thats why I pre-ordered it).

[alva]

Cmon Spencer, you really don't think they would have released it if they had known about it, do you?
Look at the facts...
They had a solution within 24hours.

1. they would have held the gold to fix it, in order to avoid what happened.
2. they found out after gold, there would have been a patch (or the fix) the moment it came out (again, after scrambling, they had one 24 later).

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by alva
Cmon Spencer, you really don't think they would have released it if they had known about it, do you?
Look at the facts...
They had a solution within 24hours.

1. they would have held the gold to fix it, in order to avoid what happened.
2. they found out after gold, there would have been a patch (or the fix) the moment it came out (again, after scrambling, they had one 24 later).

No, I dont think they knew about it. From what I've seen firaxis have been working their asses off trying to understand the problem and finding a workaround (which is no less than what they did for civ3 when a problem was identified).

OTOH, I wonder why this happened? If we assume that some beta testers must have had an ATI card (of the non-compatible variety) then why are we only seeing this problem now? It suggests to me that the publisher is at fault. We know that there have been other screw-ups such as the french tech tree and the mislabelled disks. Is it such a stretch of logic to wonder if some of the disks are in fact faulty (either extractors or copy protection) and that explains why the game works for some and not others (thats what I mean by fishy).

[Stuie]

Originally posted by SpencerH
OTOH, I wonder why this happened? If we assume that some beta testers must have had an ATI card (of the non-compatible variety) then why are we only seeing this problem now?

If the fact that the game REQUIRED the DirectX version shipped with the Civ4 CD in order to play had been emphasized, there wouldn't have been any problem (except maybe people with old drivers, but some onus must fall on the end user to keep their system up to date).

I'm pretty computer savvy, and when I saw the "Install DirectX 9.0c" window appear, I thought "I've already got that" and clicked cancel. But when the render error message came up I immediately figured I had to install the DirectX version from the Civ CD, did so, and had no further problems.

Now as to why the beta testers missed this, they were probably instructed as to exactly what DirectX version they needed to use every step of the way, and told to keep their drivers up to date.

[Solver]

I think Civ3 was released in a worse state than Civ4. Civ4 has a number of difficulties on the technical side, but not gameplay concept appears broken. In Civ3, when it was released, airpower was completely broken - it simply didn't work at all. There are a few bugs in Civ4, but nothing in the league of an entire concept not working.

[SpencerH]

It's certainly true that CIV3 had plenty of bad (game ending) bugs. While I sincerly hope that we dont have the same for CIV4, we wont find the MP variety for a while (especially the PBEM enders).

I guess another way to look at this is whether the people rending their clothes and gnashing their teeth in the rendering thread - some of whom seem to be really screwed- are a small minority or not.

[Gray_Lensman]

Having been burned so many times over the last few years with buggy software, I've resolved to wait at least 6 months before I purchase Civ IV. The time allows me peruse these fine forums for pro/con comments that will not be biased by the initial rush of "Wowwy Zowwy, A new Civ Game..., It's the greatest ever... blah, blah.

[Solver]

I guess another way to look at this is whether the people rending their clothes and gnashing their teeth in the rendering thread - some of whom seem to be really screwed- are a small minority or not.

These people are really screwed, but are only a fraction of ATI card users. The other people who are having bugs are also a minority - it's just obvious that the tech support forum is full of posts from those who do have bugs, not the rest saying how they don't.

I'd say that if you buy the game with a machine that meets the specifications, you have a 95% chance of it running immediately with the latest drivers, and many of the remaining issues are going to be patched.

[CanuckSoldier]

Yes it's definitely a case of 1% of the people making 99% of the static :-/

CS

[seebs]

FWIW, I have a 256MB ATI card, and didn't need to do any of the wacky driver crap to get the game to run.

It does crash sometimes, and I have a very reproducible crash, but I don't think it's video, because it doesn't matter what's on screen when it happens.

[SpencerH]

My game came this afternoon and I've installed it with no problem with an ATI 9800 128 MB and I didnt update the drivers, remove any files, spin widdershins, etc.

I have a theory why this is so.

[Caltone]

Put me down as another 256mb ATI user with no problems.

It's difficult for folks outside of software development to understand how what they see as an "obvious" bug makes it to release.

Almost every piece of complex software will have bugs no matter the amount of testing. I say that, I know it is true, and yet every time I push something through to production I say to myself, "It's done!" Only to find myself shortly spammed by bugtrack emails

[Dr,ape]

Ever noticed that almost every game ever come out in history has an "uh-oh" readme section for ATI cards??