Specialists

[Arrian]

I'm having some trouble breaking out of CivIII-style city development. The only specialists I have are those created by great people settling in the city, or some that happen b/c the city is using all the tiles it can, but had some extra foods so it grew and created a specialist in spite of me

This hasn't hurt me on Warlord level, but I'm thinkin' this is something I should work on.

What type of city is best to make into a specialist city? Obviously a high-food city, so you can support them... but lots of high-food cities have potential to become large, productive cities and using lots of scientists or merchants would stunt that, so I've avoided it thus far. It's not like you can add workers to boost the pop of a city anymore.

So, anyone figured out some solid basic rules of thumb about specialist cities?

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Hey wait a minute, you are listed in th credits as a beta test, you are suppose to tell us how things work.

BTW good to see you posting. And no I have not played enough to answer the question.

[Dominae]

That's a big question, with an equally big answer (or set of possible answers). I'll spare you a "big answer", for now (read: I'm not really sure myself)!

One thing to keep in mind is that Specialists generate Great People, and Great People are very powerful.

So while it may seem that it's a bad idea to lose "productive" tile yield (Hammers and Commerce) by spamming Farms, the payoff from Great People really does make up for it.

For instance, just a few Specialists in one city produces a steady stream of "free" techs. Could that city alone do the same with Cottages instead in equal amounts of time?

[Dominae]

Re: Specialists

Originally posted by Arrian
It's not like you can add workers to boost the pop of a city anymore.

Good riddance!

Here's another tip then: try to think of Specialists as a normal part of your city management, not as something you do when the population in certain cities gets excessively high.

In Civ3, Specialists were either: 1) a means of preventing cities from rioting, 2) a means of preventing a city from growing (there were other uses, but these were the main ones). Not very interesting, if you ask me. In CIV, Specialists are an integral part of the game strategy.

Consider the effect of the Caste System Civic...

[Arrian]

Here's another tip then: try to think of Specialists as a normal part of your city management, not as something you do when the population in certain cities gets excessively high.

Yeah, that's the mindset I need to get into/out of. That's most of the problem - in previous Civ iterations (even Conquests, which much improved specialists), any half-way decent tile was better than pulling the citizen off the land.

-Arrian

p.s. vmxa1 - I'm in the credits? Holy ****, I didn't even notice.

[DeepO]

Arrian, it sounds like you're not specializing enough. You do not need good food cities to get decent production, you simply need hill country and some food. Or large cities in forests.

For the high food ones, don't hesitate. It's always better to have one or two large cities exclusively for specialists. If these further have good production allowing them some wonder builds: fine. Otherwise, build anything that will allow you more specialists (forges, libs, temples,...).

Early on, you should be able to have 5 or more, later on up to 15 specialists in the best cities. This way, you generate enough beakers, or hammers, or gold, or culture to make it worth your while. And you can get 10-30 GPs in a game.

In general, trying to build GPs everywhere is a bad choice: as the numbers increase (and after the 10th GP they increase faster) your first few GPs will come easily, but then the low GP-point cities will never reach the cost again. So you end up with a city in 2050 AD generating 2 GP points, for a total of 800/3300 points. Large cities can get over 100GPppt under the right circumstances.

DeepO

[PBN]

DeepO... it sounds like you have a much better handle on managing GPs than most. I posted this question elsewhere, perhaps you can shed some light. Can you settle (and resettle) GPs into a city to increase GP production? (specialized, of course)

[padillah]

As long as we're talking about Specialists I'll ask this, though it may be OT.

I noticed a tech last night (maybe Alchemy but don't quot me) that had "Build Research" as a feature. What the heck is 'Build Research"? Does that mean control the research slider? Does it mean ability to create Scientists?

I'm not getting it.

Tom P.
"I like refried bean. That's why I want to try fried beans, 'cause they may taste just as good and we're wasting time." - Mitch Hedberg

[DeepO]

Originally posted by PBN
DeepO... it sounds like you have a much better handle on managing GPs than most. I posted this question elsewhere, perhaps you can shed some light. Can you settle (and resettle) GPs into a city to increase GP production? (specialized, of course)

Well, I should have a better handle on specialists, after all I was asked to judge gameplay a couple of months ago I can't read every question, though. Sorry.

Adding GPs to cities is what I'd call an advanced tactic. No, they won't generate GPp (GP points, I'm tired of typing it). They will increase beakers, culture, gold, hammers, or food. More food can lead to more specialists in a city, so in that way they do have an effect. Note that settling GMs is the only way of adding fpt to a city.

What makes settling so advanced, is that is not so easy at first to get a feel where to settle them for maximum results. Building an academy is nearly always better than settling your GS... Nearly. And getting a tech lead can be critical as well. If you do have a focus on settling GPs, you can build some super cities, which will be even more important on the higest difficulty levels. Always remember; settled GPs do not require food. Nor do they become unhappy. You don't need any resource to make them work.

DeepO

[Eyemaze]

it means you can set a city to build research, it converts hammers to research by some %

[DeepO]

Originally posted by padillah
I noticed a tech last night (maybe Alchemy but don't quot me) that had "Build Research" as a feature. What the heck is 'Build Research"?

Once you get that, there is a button on your city screens that allow you to convert hammers to beakers. Hence to 'build' research.

Experiment with that one, also the cultural one(comes with Drama or Music I thought). They can be very useful sometimes.

DeepO

[Simplicity]

Remember that an unhappy guy is an unhelpful guy. You can always stop your cities from getting ANY unhappy citizens by curbing its growth before the happiness limit is reached. How do you curb its growth? By creating specialists!

[Googlie]

And for a Mercantilist Civ, sending that Great Merchant 30 or 40 tiles away to a big foreign city can be extremely worthwhile - In a game yesterday I got 3000 gold, enough to upgrade all my warriors to infantrymen, just as a neighbour was beginning to get snotty - he soon backed off

That's the beauty of civ4 - another in a series of strategic choices to be made (steady commerce stream, or one-time lump sum) - much like the Great Scientist decision - Academy or labs boost

[Galumphus]

So here's a followup: where's the sweet spot, where you have just enough specialists to get the good stuff, but enough regular citizens to keep growin' smoothly? Or, since the sweet spot is likely to vary dramatically in games, what's the best way to find it?

[alva]

I'm having some trouble breaking out of CivIII-style city development. The only specialists I have are those created by great people settling in the city, or some that happen b/c the city is using all the tiles it can, but had some extra foods so it grew and created a specialist in spite of me

You're not the only one.

The one thing you should do, is not go to fast on the difficulty level ladder and stay on one that offers a relaxing game so you can experiment.
I went to monarch rather quickly and in order to compete, my style got a bit cramped and I resorted to proven tactics, or at least what I thought were proven tactics which of course aren't really that good anymore.
The effect of that wast that was still able to produce a dozen or more specialists but most of them fairly late in game when my cities are maxing out and I felt having a specialist is costing me too much.
Nothing wrong with that in itself, expect that having an early acadamy (to name one) is alot more worth than a late one is, thus getting a couple of early specialists is certainly worth the slower growth in the long term.

Unlearn Civ3!