Not many women...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by FireWalkWithMe
More women should definately be represented.

Why? What's the point?

[snuggs]

The women leaders listed in a previous post ACTUALLY ruled their respective nations, so putting them in the game is not an inaccuracy, nor is it being PC.

It can be if you bring them in at any cost over the heads of more deserving candidates. I believe Japan had just one empress, very early on, and her reign was a disaster. Should she be brought in or should it be someone who fought, judged and kicked arse like Oda Nobunaga or even a general like Yamamoto?

Never thought I'd see the day AA came to Civ-land.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by TomVeil
I don't have the game yet (package arrives Friday!), but I assume there is still the option to change the name and gender of the leader that the human is playing as. I think that's a darn good start.

I agree with the general consensus that there aren't that many historical women leaders -- even the most famous Iriquois were all men -- and that limits what the programmers can do. Adding "leaders" like Susan B. Anthony would be a joke. But they did take a serious step in the wrong direction by getting rid of Joan of Arc. How many European national leaders acheived demigod/sainthood status?

And religion has more influence in Civ 4. Joan could have wielded some serious clout with her armies fighting in the name of God and all. She doesn't require the church improvement or priests, but receives direct communication from God. Also, there were some of us that had sort of a crush on Joan, before she had the bald head anyway.

But seriously, I think its a great opportunity for mods to offer some alternatives, but having four historical women leaders seems OK. I can't defend the point of having nonhistorical women leaders. Its a game play issue, primarily for women gamers who would like to see these choices.

[monolith94]

I hope the civ makers were hip enough at least to make Sei Shonagon a Japanese Great Artist.

[Egbert]

Re: Not many women...

Originally posted by upjoa
So, I know this might be a silly thing to get upset about, but I hate the fact that they don't have more female leaders. Every civilization should have a male and female option. Can't they use historical women as leaders, like Susan B. Anthony for America? On top of it they removed Joan of Arc. Come on! I'm sure they could dig up some women!

I agree with you. It is a very silly thing to get upset about. You have started a very stupid thread, shame on you.

It seems ridiculous to put in "token women" for the sake of political correctness. Should we start by replacing the American leader with Gypsy Rose Lee (she was a leading American stripper, very famous)???

That said, I played most of my Civ3 games with a female leader. (Elizabeth I was not a "token woman" leader by any stretch of the imagination).

[Egbert]

Originally posted by Lensman74

But following your argument, a German might want to play the Incan nation but as a German leader. That is ridiculous. Not only does it not have ANY historical basis whatsoever but it is a poor rebuttal. The women leaders listed in a previous post ACTUALLY ruled their respective nations, so putting them in the game is not an inaccuracy, nor is it being PC.

Nah, that is a brilliant idea. I mean to say it is the basest discrimination against Germans if they can't play the Inca's with a German ruler. I propose that ALL leaders be replaced with Germans. If we don't do this the German players might feel unloved and unwanted.

[Egbert]

Originally posted by upjoa

Also, I'd like to clarify that my reasoning for wanting more women is not to be "PC", it's to because, as a woman I want to play a woman.

Yeah, and as an Australian I want to play as an Australian. I should be able to have an Aussie as a selectable leader for Any civ I wish to play.

If you wish to argue that it would be ridiculous to have an Australian ruling Iriqois then, pray tell, which great women ruled Iriquois?

[FireWalkWithMe]

Originally posted by mattcj
Cmon... couldn't you just see Hilary Clinton as the American leader with slick Willy in the background messing around with an intern or 2 or 6!!

Or a George Bush with strings attatched to him being pulled by cheney

[FireWalkWithMe]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Firaxis needs to add a leader gender option where the player can select either historical (dominantly male) leaders or fantasy (male and female 50/50) leaders. It wouldn't be that hard to do and that way everyone could be happy...well, maybe not the hard-core feminists, who would want *all* of the leaders to be female, but what the heck.

Um, wow. What an ignorant thing to say there at the end.

[FireWalkWithMe]

Originally posted by upjoa
What this all comes down to is I'm a female player, yes a women who likes strategy games, and would like my character to be female. I just want the option. I'd think most men wouldn't want to have just 5 men to chose from. It's not about being a feminist or anything, I just enjoy playing as a women and this is a game. How hard would it be to have more woman. If the game was that "historically accurate" a bowman wouldn't take out a marine, or a spearman defend and win against a tank. So hey if we can bend the rules there why not with rulers.

Also history has had many female Rulers, such as:
Makeda, Queen of Sheba, 960 B.C. (Ethiopia), Empress Wu Zetian (Wu Chao), 625-705 (China), Queen Sondok, ruled 632-647 (Korea), Sultana Radiyya Bint Shams al-Din Iltutmish (ruled North India 1236-1240), Maria Theresa, 1717-1780 (Austria, Hungary, Bohemia), Benazir Bhutto (Pakistan), Tzu-hsi Empress of China (1835-1908), Maria da Lourdes Pintasilgo (Portugal), Empress Himiko (183 BC Japan), Sammuramat
Assyrian Queen, 9th Century B.C., Indira Gandhi Prime Minister of India: 1917-1984, Golda Meir Prime Minister of Israel: 1898-1978, Empress Irene (Byzantine Empire 763-803 C.E.), Queen Nzinga - Angola: 1583-1663, Jhansi Ki Rani (Queen of Jhansi, India, 1850s) ... Want more or is this enough?

Also several people didn't know who Susan B. Anthony was. She was the leader of the American Suffrage movement, and as an American woman I wouldn't mind having her as a ruler.

You rock!

[Generaldoktor]

Indira Gandhi. Seriously, can anybody introduce to some of these female Civ geeks, er, players. I'd like to be their strategy guide?

[aspvv]

Suggestion for a new leader, or a greater person: Monika Lewinski +one happy face in the capital.

Seriously this is a strategy game aimed at history not a Role Playing Game.

[Lumpx]

It seems to me that some of Ghandi was never the leader of India but he is included in the game so why not Joan of Arc?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Lumpx
It seems to me that some of Ghandi was never the leader of India but he is included in the game so why not Joan of Arc?

Gandhi was indeed the head of the Indian National Congress before independance. I doubt that anyone would have disagreed that he was the leader of the Indians.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Gandhi was indeed the head of the Indian National Congress before independance. I doubt that anyone would have disagreed that he was the leader of the Indians.

Yeah... who says heads of state need to wear pants?