Apolyton Civ4 PREVIEW (By Solver) - Part 3 online

[Martinus]

Originally posted by ajbera
Solver, you mentioned blocs based on religion. Are other civs inclined to like you because of similar civics too? What about disliking you for certain civics?

I am fairly sure this is the case, at least as far as the leaders' favoured civics are concerned. It was mentioned in one of the previews that favoured civics are one of the chief determinant behind forming of power blocks (Police State fanboys vs. Monarchists vs. Republicans, for example). So Mao is going to like you when you have State Property and dislike you when you have Free Market, Mercantilism or Environmentalism.

[wgabrie]

Hey solver goods artice, I liked the multiplayer screenshots with you and Mark. Trying to emphisis your winning ?

[lockstep]

Good preview, Solver, and your comments about the AI and diplomacy really sound great! I also like the fact that there aren't any 'hard' caps for city growth.

Question about the U.N.: You wrote that the number of votes for each civ is 'determined by population size'. Does that mean a voting strength proportional to population size, or is the formula more complicated - e.g. using the square root of size, so that a civ four times as big as another one would only have twice as many U.N. votes?

EDIT: spelling

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, excuse me if I have already asked this question Solver, but what was the relative importance-towards culture-of your cultural buildings vs. your culture slider. For instance, were you able to get along just fine on building culture alone, or did you find yourself frequently having to boost your culture levels via budget allocations.

Oh, this brings me to the issue of National Wonders. I have heard that there is a 'Hard-Cap' on how many of these each city can have, yet it would seem that there are already enough 'soft caps'-in terms of city specialisations et al-to prevent national wonders from being, shall we say, abused. I am curious, though, did you have any problems with this hard-cap, or did you find that it never really became an issue for you? Also, does this cap apply to World Wonders, or just National ones?

On the culture issue, it occurs to me now that, what with some tiles effectively being able to have 'partial ownership' between two civs (i.e, effectively be 'contested') it occurs to me that the next step for diplomacy would be the power to either cede or demand ALL DISPUTED TERRITORY. So, if you share a border with Greece, and you have about a dozen tiles which are even 10% Greek, then you could either gift/trade them to Greece, or demand/ask for them to be ceded to you. The relative % ownership of each tile might also effect how likely the nation is to like/dislike you afterwards (whether he agrees or not!)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Adagio]

Nice preview


But would this mean there'll be no more new info before the game is released?

[Addled Platypus]

yet another thank you


26th ....just a few more....I can make it

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Well, think how I feel Platypus-I still have around 12-13 days to wait until this brilliant game comes out !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[kallisti_dk]

Will you be able to win a shared victory with an AI?

[sophist]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Actually, excuse me if I have already asked this question Solver, but what was the relative importance-towards culture-of your cultural buildings vs. your culture slider. For instance, were you able to get along just fine on building culture alone, or did you find yourself frequently having to boost your culture levels via budget allocations.

What might be good is making it like science, where the budget slider creates a base level that is then modified by the various improvements you have in place. However, it sounds like Libraries don't work the way they used to, so this is on shaky ground.

[Solver]

Actually, I just thought of something else I would like to ask: given the fact that the AI knows how to develop its cities, is it fair to say that you will often find an AI civ which has at least as much-if not more-gold than you (both in total and per turn)?

Sometimes it happens, but generally, the AIs will spend their money if they have a use for it - upgrading units, buying techs, etc. AIs, except the very weak ones, certainly don't live being bankrupt though.

Oh, another question about resources is can you see every deposit of a resource-in the world-once you have the requisite tech, or only stuff which lies within your own borders?

Every.

When interacting in the diplomacy mode, is it possible to view other screens of information regarding your civilization, intelligence of your oppponents, and the map?

Hmm, I haven't tried getting advisors in diplomacy. But at least you can mouseover the techs in the diplomacy screen to see popup help, with their benefits and breaker cost.

An overall question you said that Civ IV is the best ever. Which is certainly good news, but generally in games (and certainly in the Civ series) version 3.0 is better than 2.0 which is better than 1.0 etc.

Did you find the improvements of Civ 4 compared to Civ 3. Greater than the improvements from Civ 3 to Civ 2, or about the same or less?

How many games did you play total? What was the average length of time, i.e. are Civ IV epic games quick than Civ III games?

Finally what difficulty level would you recommend for our first games? I generally win at Emperor and can win with luck a Demigod.

I don't think Civ3 is the best Civ game, except Civ4. I prefer SMAC to Civ3. Civ4 signifies, to me, a great improvement in the series, overall. As I see it, it improves the game with concepts from all other games, including something from SMAC or CtP.

I've played at least a dozen games of Civ4, in single player, several MP games...then again, you need to understand that the game was rapidly changing up until recently. The version we had in early October was quite unlike the version in early August.

My games have, generally, been 10 hours and upwards, but it really depends on settings. I tried playing a few quick games that I could easily fit within two hours. Epic games are certainly going to be 20+ hours.

I would recommend the Noble difficulty for first games. Noble is where neither you nor the AIs have any bonuses, like Civ3 Regent, you're playing on even ground. I think most will probably lose their first game anyway .

Solver, you mentioned blocs based on religion. Are other civs inclined to like you because of similar civics too? What about disliking you for certain civics?

If you are running exactly the same civics as them, they'll be in love with you. If they ask you to adopt a certain civic and you refuse, they will dislike you.

Question about the U.N.: You wrote that the number of votes for each civ is 'determined by population size'. Does that mean a voting strength proportional to population size, or is the formula more complicated - e.g. using the square root of size, so that a civ four times as big as another one would only have twice as many U.N. votes?

No idea on the exact formula, although I suppose it's a direct proportion or something close to that.

Actually, excuse me if I have already asked this question Solver, but what was the relative importance-towards culture-of your cultural buildings vs. your culture slider. For instance, were you able to get along just fine on building culture alone, or did you find yourself frequently having to boost your culture levels via budget allocations.

I prefer to leave my culture slider at 0% most of the time, so that I can have maximum science output. Then again, if I really need to get culture quickly to claim a certain area, temporarily turning the slider up is a good idea.

Oh, this brings me to the issue of National Wonders. I have heard that there is a 'Hard-Cap' on how many of these each city can have, yet it would seem that there are already enough 'soft caps'-in terms of city specialisations et al-to prevent national wonders from being, shall we say, abused. I am curious, though, did you have any problems with this hard-cap, or did you find that it never really became an issue for you? Also, does this cap apply to World Wonders, or just National ones?

National Wonders only, and I actually like the cap. That makes it more strategic, as you need to plan ahead which wonders you will want in your city. For example, you may want both the National Epic and the Oxford in the same city, but then you'll miss out on the Wall Street or the Globe Theatre. It's interesting indeed!

Will you be able to win a shared victory with an AI?

Team victory is possible in team games / games with Permanent Alliances on.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I prefer to leave my culture slider at 0% most of the time, so that I can have maximum science output. Then again, if I really need to get culture quickly to claim a certain area, temporarily turning the slider up is a good idea.

That is kind of a disappointment to here, 'cause they (the developers) certainly made the culture slider component of culture sound like a MUCH more important component of forming your cultural borders than it actually sounds now. I mean, the way you make it sound, the culture slider is even LESS important than the old luxury slider was (particularly at low levels). Choosing whether to put more money into your nations science or into its culture-or a bit of both-should always be a tough strategic decision for a player-especially now that maintainance for individual improvements/wonders is no longer in the game. It would have also helped make culture another element in the 'bigger doesn't always equal better' system.

Oh, that does bring me to another question. Does the value of science-or culture-funding decline the more cities you have? Soren previously indicated in a thread of mine that the more cities you have, the more money you require to maintain culture/science at the same rate-did you see this effect? Thanks again Solver !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Solver]

Nah... it's just my overall strategy (I suck at Civ anyway). My strategy is to attempt to be the tech leader, use my tech lead to comfortably win wars when I can, and go for the spaceship. Thus, I always try to have my science slider as high as I can. If you want to gain some of the contested land, then the culture slider is very important.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Oh well, thats OK then-I suck at civ too, btw (i.e. I rarely ACTUALLY win games ) I should point out that, when I say 'disappointed', I am not actually as disappointed as I sound-I mean nothing I have heard so far is sufficient for me to go, I well I don't want the game anymore (not even CLOSE). There might be some things which I don't think they did as well as others but, from everything I hear, the overall effect is an utterly brilliant game. Truth be told, I am sold purely on the AI, diplomacy and civics part of the game alone!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Solver]

Hey, where did you last see a game that didn't have some weaker parts ? I also think that some parts aren't done as well as some other brilliant parts, but I still think the game's awesome.

The IGN review of 9.4 sums it up pretty well. A 9.5 for gameplay and 10 for Lasting Appeal are something I agree with!

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Well, I am currently listening to 'Baba Yetu' by Chris Tin-and a chance to hear that every time I load up the game will by itself give the game 'lasting appeal' ! Though, to be fair, I feel certain that there will be dozens of elements which I come back to again and again and again-and thats even before I mod it (or use other peoples mods). Trust me, I have never been as certain of a great civ experience as I am this time around !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.