Civil War & Partizans

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by spy14
Another option being a protectorate, an unequal alliance between a powerful country and its puppet "friend".

Not quite the same setup as Messers Bush and Blair, but you see where i'm going with this.

or this one maybe?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ninot
I'll bake cookies for whoever can mod in Civil War.

Would that be a reward or a punishment?

[fezick31]

Originally posted by spy14
Another option being a protectorate, an unequal alliance between a powerful country and its puppet "friend".

Not quite the same setup as Messers Bush and Blair, but you see where i'm going with this.

SMAC did this pretty well. It would be nice to see it in Civ 4. To be realistic, though, corruption would have to be rampant.

[fezick31]

I also like the idea of combinations. I could see a couple of scenerios for combination:

1. To preserve a common minority religion
2. To increase the power and competiteveness of the civs involved or for mutal protection
3. At the 'request' of a more powerful civ (think Yugoslavia during the Soviet period)

It would be intersting to see a duel led empire as well ... alliances so strong you have to negotiate with two leaders at once.

Should this be included as part of Civil War mod though? It sounds complex enough that it may need to be it's own.

Perhaps what we all really want is the option to have dynamic empires that can vary greatly in the game, and the Civil Wars and Empire Consolidation would just be components of that Mod. Instead of choosing your opponents for the entire game, you just choose which civs you will be starting against, with no guarentees of what the game will look like in the future...

[Mao]

Wait, maybe I'm misreading something here, but I remember distinctly in Civ2 that when you captured the capital of another civ that was big enough (or whatever modifiers there were), there'd be another civ springing up if you had room for it (7 was the max number of civs though). Is this what you're all referring to?

[fezick31]

Originally posted by Mao
Wait, maybe I'm misreading something here, but I remember distinctly in Civ2 that when you captured the capital of another civ that was big enough (or whatever modifiers there were), there'd be another civ springing up if you had room for it (7 was the max number of civs though). Is this what you're all referring to?

You're thinkning of how "respawn AI" worked in Civ2. If you wiped out a civ while there was open ground, a new civilation of the same color would appear somewhere on the map. In Civ3, the same Civ re-appeared, and you never go the satisfaction of wiping them out.

What we are referring to is in Civ 1 (I don't believe that this occured in Civ2), if you captured the capitol City of a civ, there was a chance that a siginicant number of their cities would convert to a new, previously not there civilation. It gave you a message along the lines of "The capture of Moscow has triggered a civil war in Russia. When the dust settles, Russia and Greece emerge as rivals"

[Mao]

Originally posted by fezick31


You're thinkning of how "respawn AI" worked in Civ2. If you wiped out a civ while there was open ground, a new civilation of the same color would appear somewhere on the map. In Civ3, the same Civ re-appeared, and you never go the satisfaction of wiping them out.

What we are referring to is in Civ 1 (I don't believe that this occured in Civ2), if you captured the capitol City of a civ, there was a chance that a siginicant number of their cities would convert to a new, previously not there civilation. It gave you a message along the lines of "The capture of Moscow has triggered a civil war in Russia. When the dust settles, Russia and Greece emerge as rivals"

Wait, that sounds exactly like what happened in Civ2 as well. I remember that when you captured another civ's capital, half it's cities would become another civ completely, hence the "civil war."

Am I just totally imagining my civ2 experience here? Someone back me up?

[fezick31]

Originally posted by Mao


Wait, that sounds exactly like what happened in Civ2 as well. I remember that when you captured another civ's capital, half it's cities would become another civ completely, hence the "civil war."

Am I just totally imagining my civ2 experience here? Someone back me up?

I don't ever remember this happening in Civ 2, but that doesn't mean that it didn't (heck, it was super rare in civ 1, and happened only a ahndful of times in scores of games). I haven't played it in a long time, so you could be right.

What you are describing does sound like the civil war we are discussing, although we are looking for something more advanced that would be based on religious and/or cultural factors and not just a random number generator.

[Mao]

Originally posted by fezick31


I don't ever remember this happening in Civ 2, but that doesn't mean that it didn't (heck, it was super rare in civ 1, and happened only a ahndful of times in scores of games). I haven't played it in a long time, so you could be right.

What you are describing does sound like the civil war we are discussing, although we are looking for something more advanced that would be based on religious and/or cultural factors and not just a random number generator.

Ah ok...so maybe I'm not insane...

Unfortunately I don't even have Civ4 and didn't even play Civ3 (hell, Civ2 was really the only civ I got into), so I don't have much of a solution since I can't even grasp a lot of these concepts you speak of (civics? bah! I remember the nice set of 6 governments...)

[Willem]

Originally posted by Mao


Ah ok...so maybe I'm not insane...

Unfortunately I don't even have Civ4 and didn't even play Civ3 (hell, Civ2 was really the only civ I got into), so I don't have much of a solution since I can't even grasp a lot of these concepts you speak of (civics? bah! I remember the nice set of 6 governments...)

If you ever played SMAC, civics shouldn't be that hard to grasp. It's very much the same thing as in that game. I'm glad to see it back, it was a good way of doing things.

[Ekmek]

as far as partisans go, some code was done for ctp2 that you can download with cradle and it would be a matter of converting it to python. locutus said its very similar to the slic that ctp2 uses. IIRC there is something like civil wars in cradle (Aom for sure) so getting those slic files I think maybe a start (but dont have civ4 yet so i cant help)

[fezick31]

Originally posted by Mao
Ah ok...so maybe I'm not insane...

Nope...just been awhile. I still remember playing Civ 1 on an old 386. There's a lot of history in this game (no pun intended).

Unfortunately I don't even have Civ4 and didn't even play Civ3 (hell, Civ2 was really the only civ I got into), so I don't have much of a solution since I can't even grasp a lot of these concepts you speak of (civics? bah! I remember the nice set of 6 governments...)

I don't have it either...from lack of extra funds, not desire though (got a kid on the way, which downgrades the priority of new video games). There are several concepts you will need to research to get up to speed (you can find them in the forums here, I'm sure).

Civ 3
1. Culture, which controls city allegience and national borders
2. Nationality, which controls the ethnicity of your citizens

In Civ 3, culture made it much more difficult to hold onto captured cities, as they wanted to return to their founding civilzation (this is a very simplistic explaination, but there are thousands of posts in the Civ 3 forums that will help you out)

Civ 4
1. Religion
2. Civics - think of it as the 6 governments broken into their base elements so that you can assemble your own version of government.

Someone else will have to go into more detail about this. I could probably guess the details, but I'd probably get it wrong too.

What we are attempting to do here is to create a realistic simulation of how empires reshape themselves over time.

[Kristjan]

Originally posted by fezick31
Nope...just been awhile. I still remember playing Civ 1 on an old 386. There's a lot of history in this game (no pun intended).

Hey, I got Civ1 running on XT with EGA graphics. For shapeing the world, it showed all flash screens it had for it and then waited for 10 full minutes to complete. But it worked

[fezick31]

Originally posted by Kristjan


Hey, I got Civ1 running on XT with EGA graphics. For shapeing the world, it showed all flash screens it had for it and then waited for 10 full minutes to complete. But it worked

Oh civ 1...I miss my conastoga wagons and frankenstein railroads...

but i get OT...

[QuickGold]

I'm all for a civil war mod. I loved in Civ II when a nation would split in half