Civil War & Partizans

[CAB]

One really good feature if there was a Civil War or Succession model would be to let the player choose witch side of the conflict to continue play with.

I'm very certain that some players would find it very interesting and a fun challenge to fight its own creation as the underdog new nation and form a new even greater power.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by CAB
One really good feature if there was a Civil War or Succession model would be to let the player choose witch side of the conflict to continue play with.

I'm very certain that some players would find it very interesting and a fun challenge to fight its own creation as the underdog new nation and form a new even greater power.

good point

[Reader81]

I like Civil War in it, it should be happan only when people dont like you or rule or silly law or give them hard time!

[Tiberius]

Civil wars !

[Wittlich]

I couldn't agree with you more Tiberius!

[Malig]

Originally posted by sophist
I think people misunderstand the random aspect. What's random isn't if a secession/rebellion/civil war happens, nor approximately when it happens, but precisely when. If you let things slide too far, you may end up in a situation where you can know that some part of your empire will rebel in the next 5 turns. You don't know in which turn it will happen, but you know that it will to a pretty good degree of precision, and to which cities.

A way to do it that I would be comfortable with is something like a popup at the start of your turn saying something like:



If you accede to their demands, the rebellion is averted. If you ignore them, they secede peacefully, with the new nation potentially being automatically an ally. The third option does not prevent the secession, but it does create a state of war between you and the other nation, and also could trigger whatever alliances you may have. And if you send in the storm troopers... well, they might still secede, and you've started a civil war, but you can get your cities back, and purge the disloyal citizens.

Perhaps there could be a multiple popups leading up to this as the situation degrades.

Code yellow: "Sire, a delegation of citizens from Syracuse have presented a petition..."

Code orange: "A group calling itself the People's Revolution of Syracuse is agitating for...."

Code red: as above.

Yes i like the above with the following addendum:

1) If your civ has taken over cities of another civ and the captured/destroyed civ had a high culture rating then:
Within 1000 years perhaps less:
The cities belonging to that civ may move for independence (like greece having been part of the roman , byzatine and ottoman empire).
Then if they are successful they would become an independent civ before they were destroyed like in Medieval total war, a destroyed faction would sometimes come back. etc.

2) If the split off occurs and the culture is the same as yours if another leader of your nation (like victoria and elizabeth) exist they would be the leader of that nation with colors similar to the original nation for continuity sake.

2a) If there is no other leader available like for Spain, the rebelling nation would have a random image or a silhouhette picture of a person as the leaders image. The colors would be similar for continuity sake.

2b) The new nation would receive the same specials as the original nation it had rebelled against. It would count as a whole other civ but viewed differently by the AI if at war with the nation it had rebelled against. That is the AI would understand this is a rebelling nation with the same culture as the nation it is rebelling against.

3) If the rebelling/independent nation is not the same culture as in part 1 (greece) then other civs may attack them and take that culture over.

3a) If the rebelling/independent nation is the same culture as yours then there should/might be special options available. For instance you may be allied with another nation that helps you in your unifying efforts and would capture a rebelling city and 'hold' it for you and hand it over to you when ready. Much like liberating a city like Berlin/Paris during ww2.

3b) On the other hand perhaps an ally of yours has been completely captured and destroyed IE. xxxx civ has been destroyed so (total civs - 1). If you were able to capture enough of the enemies cities of your allies (now defunct) culture you maybe re-establish your ally as a nation once again. This would/should cause this ally to be so grateful as to always side with you in all matters or something. Would be similar to the puppet nation mentioned by above poster but both options would be good.

4) May be redundant but to be clear I just want to make sure the AI understands the circumstances involved and not to treat it indifferently. Which also means some civs inclined to being evil may try to take advantage of the situation perhaps helping the rebels with funds or units etc.


I agree with there be special diplomatic options / special events occuring involving rebels and mother nation.

Those are just some options i would like to see available. These events should occure with or without the human players influence.

[Dinner]

I noticed the Civ4 site has linked to this thread so could it be that Firzaxis is considering adding in Civil Wars & Partisans into the first expansion pack?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I noticed the Civ4 site has linked to this thread so could it be that Firzaxis is considering adding in Civil Wars & Partisans into the first expansion pack?

would be sweet

[Verenti]

Here's my take on Civil Wars and Seperatists:

Civil War: Should Split your civilization into multiple parts roughly equal and the multiple parts should have differences in Civics, Like mentioned before you should have the choice of which side to fight on. And the different sides should have different leaders (Like Napoleon versus Louis XIV).

Now they shouldn't be a normal country either, If you capture a faction's capital it should cause them to surrender into your Faction, and if a foriegn power declares war on one faction the entire Nation should declare war on the invaders except if they were invited to the war by a faction via alliance, in THAT case, all of their conquests should turn over to the Faction they're supporting: Like the US in Vietnam or the Prussians in the French Revolution.

Civil Wars should happen for a variety of reasons, with the advent of new civics, if your population is unhappy/unhealthy should create a new surge of unhappiness of people desiring reform: The Hippies and Enviromentalism, The French and ... Repersentation?

There should be a random event that also makes people unhappy and want to adopt new Civics. Grass is always greener on the other side after all.

Great Thinkers (Scientists?) should also raise social unrest when used (Social Philosophy). Or maybe they cause a wave of unhappiness in other countries that don't share your civic choices? Maybe that should be a new type of Great Person: Philosopher.

Or maybe coming out of a Golden Age should also give you a happiness hit.

Some times there should also be multiple factions in a Civil war with very simular agendas: Warlords vying for power, like in Ancient China.

If Civil wars occur about 5 times a game (to various countries), I'd be happy. If you make them somthing that makes you internalize for a few turns while you take out the revolt (They should be easier to defeat than your average foe to be sure. Maybe a penalty in combat vs you.. Maybe lower city defence bonus due sympathisers). But then again, maybe it'll end up like North and South Korea.

And I think you guys have a good thoughts on Sepertists.

As you can see, I share a good many opinions as Malig on the matter.

[Dinner]

If Civ4 will have ethnicity/nationality the way Civ3 had then having many civil wars/revolutions break down along ethnic lines would also make sense.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Verenti
Great Thinkers (Scientists?) should also raise social unrest when used (Social Philosophy). Or maybe they cause a wave of unhappiness in other countries that don't share your civic choices? Maybe that should be a new type of Great Person: Philosopher.

This is a great idea. If for instance your neighbor emancipates his slaves then your slaves might become more restless for their own freedom.

[Grandpa Troll]

or it would be kinda super cool for the civs with two possible leaders to have the other spawn and head up a part of your civ to make a split..like when GWB BUSHWACKED da snot outta Al Gore in Florida..

hanging willnots or dingleberries or Chads as I believe the correct political term is?? The better man won

Now If Gore would have gone around the country starting trouble civil unrest..this could be kinda cool for the game

maybe not

I m,ean in real life we just simply move on

I would think it would take a lot of strategy to overcome civil unrest in a country

[lex_kravetski]

I think it would be nice if revolutions and rebellions occur like EU's one. There will be some "rebel points" in every city and for the whole of the country. The player (AI or Human) actions could increase or decrease the "points". It would be war declaration or worsening health or something else. Civ4 has got the mechanism. We need only to check the probabilty of city revolting for independence or several cities revolting for this one.

Say, city of London (10 people size of) has Civ4's unrest rate 2. It means 2 London's people stop working. But it means for us that we have revolt probability in London = 2/10 * k + n. Where k is "revolution coefficient" (maybe 0.1 or so), and n is the "rebel points" that are accumulated. In example, if England were in war during last 10 turns, engine added 10*0.02 to n. If n were 0.2 before then it is 0.4 now. And the revolt probability is 2/10*0.1 + 0.4 = .42. In the begining of next turn we make a check for London. There are 42 chances of 100 for London's declaring independence.

Player can do something to decrease "rebel points". But it is not one turn issue. He needs to control it every turn. To build temples, to stop fighting with the others, to place a strong military forces in "problem cities", etc.

But the problem is how AI will do it.

[Obidion]

Yes i like the above with the following addendum:

1) If your civ has taken over cities of another civ and the captured/destroyed civ had a high culture rating then:
Within 1000 years perhaps less:
The cities belonging to that civ may move for independence (like greece having been part of the roman , byzatine and ottoman empire).
Then if they are successful they would become an independent civ before they were destroyed like in Medieval total war, a destroyed faction would sometimes come back. etc.

But yes... And i think rather about situation when all the country will dissapear from the map - then taking the occupant capital will weaken him enought to make uprising of occupied country... like poland after WW1. (civil war was that way in prev civs - country reborn when capital of opresor taken).

2nd. option is that u may support uprising of countries of these type. Or longing independent one.

One is for sure... civil wars will bring a lot of complication to resolved for players. And lot of fun

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Malig
*snip*

for that, except the bit about Berlin being liberated...