4 informative (and new I hope) screenshots

[Martinus]

It's a game. And since these positions are not sliders, but definite choices, you have to assume they are extremes (or at least denote a bias in one direction or another).

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Sava


I disagree completely.

You can absolutely have a market economy with a pragmatic balance of environmental regulations.

I don't know how it will play out in Civ 4, but it appears as if there are only extremes... it's either laissez faire free market capitalism or Green Peace environazi economy.

Where is the nice middle ground for those of us that like balance and moderation?

I agree with your disagreeing completely. It's argued that the free-market approach to environmentalism, namely, tradeable credits, is considerably more effective than some bureaucrat making up numbers. If the free market can successfully internalize the social cost of pollution (something that the tradeable credits system tries to do), then free market = environmentalism.

But I guess Martinus is right, too; it's a game, and it's also easy to make a case for why environmentalism and free market should be different choices.

[sophist]

They defined a set advantages and disadvantages for a particular civic and them slapped a name on it. The game doesn't actually model a free market or a bureaucracy, after all. As a result, we're limited to what the developers' perspective on those particular policies are. They looked at (say) serfdom and thought, "huh, well, they probably work more cheaply but are unhappy, so lets give them faster workers but more unhappiness." They don't actually model the emotions of a citizen. We don't have the CPU power for that in a game (yet). One day, though, they'll have richer and more complicated models where this behavior is modelled at the citizen level rather than just being a hard-coded set of characteristics with a real-life concept's name attached to it, and you'll be able to test out all your utopian fantasies.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by sophist
They defined a set advantages and disadvantages for a particular civic and them slapped a name on it. The game doesn't actually model a free market or a bureaucracy, after all. As a result, we're limited to what the developers' perspective on those particular policies are. They looked at (say) serfdom and thought, "huh, well, they probably work more cheaply but are unhappy, so lets give them faster workers but more unhappiness." They don't actually model the emotions of a citizen. We don't have the CPU power for that in a game (yet). One day, though, they'll have richer and more complicated models where this behavior is modelled at the citizen level rather than just being a hard-coded set of characteristics with a real-life concept's name attached to it, and you'll be able to test out all your utopian fantasies.

Right.

Mercantilism = case in point. No foreign trade routes??

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Maniac
Am I the only one who doesn't like the civics system?

Yes


I like the civics system... of course it could always be better, but at least it's better than the usual 7 governments in Civ3 (or how many there were... can't really remember)

[ajbera]

The new civics system is one of the best additions to the game, but the designers obviously had to lean towards abstract playability rather than toward realism. However, I'm sure it'll function admirably for the needs of regular players, and furthermore, I'm positive the civics choices will be debated, tweaked, and modified beyond recognition after a while (by the mod community). So, peculiarities like mercantilism prohibiting foreign trade routes will be acceptable in the short term, and likely improved in the long run.

I just keep imagining the truly sick number of modifications that will come out for this game. Hell, people are still pumping out scenarios and mods for Civ2 and Civ3, and Civ3 has a limited toolset. Amidst the tons of crappy and mediocre mods that will doubtless be produced, there are gonna be some real gems. As much as I can barely wait for Civ4 in and of itself, I am beside myself with anticipation for the brilliant mods waiting to be born.

[Xmudder]

Originally posted by prscormier
At the bottom of the Civics Screen you see a total upkeep of 10 Gold. 2 of the chosen civics have low upkeep and 3 have medium upkeep. I can't see how this adds up to 10:

2*(low)+3*(medium) = 10

It's dependent on how many cities you have, and how many of them have courthouses, not just your civics choices.