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If we take one choice per civics, and assuming that one can have only two choices at a time, I count 'only' 250 possibilities without repetition.
Where am I wrong ?
There are 5 choices in 5 categories, which translates into 5^5 choices, i.e. 3125 combinations.
Of course, not all are going to be available from day 1 and at any time some may be more viable than others, but it doesn't change the fact that you could say 3125 different choices in Civ4 whereas you had only 7 choices in Civ3 (and you could also argue there that not all are available from day 1 and that once you develop communism, monarchy becomes obsolete etc.)
(You can only have 1 choice in each category I believe - the two choices lighted up in Religion category on the screenshot signify a revolution, imo).
Also, remember that you do not get any repetitions, since each category has different choices.
Last edited by Martinus; September 29, 2005, 06:11.
The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
- Frank Herbert
Martinus, If you choose the first choice in the Government category, say Despotism, you only have 20 possible choices for the second civics among the other categories. That makes 5 x 20 = 100 possibilities in total if you choose one of the 5 choices in the Government category.
Now, if you make the same with the second array, say the 'Legal' category, then you have only 75 NEW choices among the remain categories, because the Government civics has already been counted in the previous amount.
So, if you count all the possible couples of choices, from the left to the right, you have :
yes you forget to 'reset' the group after each count. with the 5 x 20 you are only thinking about one change in the latter 4 but they can have 4 changes...it is 5^5 but i cant explain it properly in english without using dutch words..
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i am still a bit irritated that water still gives you 2 trade. i usually is barely enough to feed a fisherman's village, but to generate so much gold?
what's lovely is the green border (top right) which actually bends along the river! it looks like the borders aren't simple overlays anymore, but "know" the underlying terrain
also, are the units shrinking and shrinking? they used to be huge, then just big and now soon getting too small to distiguish?!?
last, i love those "disband" and "sentry" icons
- Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity
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Originally posted by MarkG
they are not seen before but they are from an old build
Man, you know waaay too much. We need to speak face to face, just to convince you to leak some secret! (think about that told with a James Bond voice)
Not kidding, can you point us to already know images that are from the last build? Thank you in advance.
"We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing." - Admiral Naismith
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
yes you forget to 'reset' the group after each count. with the 5 x 20 you are only thinking about one change in the latter 4 but they can have 4 changes...it is 5^5 but i cant explain it properly in english without using dutch words..
My math is truly rusted, but aren't you thinking as if this is a number on math with a base 5, are you?
That's not the right approach, IMHO. They aren't positional numbers, but a grid.
May be I'm a bit confused...
"We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing." - Admiral Naismith
Re: Re: 4 informative (and new I hope) screenshots
Originally posted by sabrewolf
those blue elephants... i've seen them several times already, but they do not look like units. is that ivory resource?
Yes. We've seen elephant units in other screenshots, they look totally different.
THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF
Originally posted by astrologix
Am I still wrong after this explanation ?
Yes, you are. I can see what you're trying to say, but you're wrong. The problem is your logic doesn't go far enough.
At your first choice, you have 5 options. Then, for your second choice, you don't have 20 choices left, but rather there are 4 choices left of each 5 options. For the second choice, you have 5 options. For the third choice you once again have 5 options left. Let's assume for the moment there are only 3 Civic categories, the first 3 in the screenshot: Government, Legal and Labor. The number of combinations using your logic is 5x10 + 5x5 = 75. In reality it's 5x5x5 = 125. Since the number is comparatively low, we can write it out, if we number rather than name the civics (no, I didn't actually do this, I used a script, but it's easier to read then write ):
Every number here, from 111 to 555 represents a different civic combination. 111 represents Despotism+Barbarism+Paganism, 555 represents Police State+Free Speech+Emancipation and e.g. 214 represents Hereditary Rule+Barbarism+Caste System. As you can see there are 25x5 =125 different combinations.
What you were probably thinking was that order doesn't matter, you can pick a Labor Civic first and a Government civic second too, rather than Labor last and Government first. While true, this would only change the meaning of the codes above, not the number of them. E.g. 214 would become Slavery+Despotism+Nationhood, but there'd still be 5x5x5 combinations.
The same logic can of course be extended to 5 Civics categories, but it would take up several forum posts to print all 3125 combinations
You're confused with permutations where you choose 5 times from a single set of 25 options. But that would mean you can could choose both Despotism and Hereditary Rule at the same time. You still messed up the math though, that would've been 25x24x23x22x21 = 25!-20! = 6,375,600 combinations!
That said, there are of course not really 3125 choices from a player's point of view, or even 250. If we apply the same logic to wonders and buildings and we assume that there are 102 of these in the game (I read that in a preview somewhere several months ago, it's probably no longer accurate but let's assume that it is for a moment) and we know that a city can either have a building/wonder or not have it, that would mean that there are 2^102 = 5,070,602,400,912,917,605,986,812,821,504 different city configurations Who the hell ever thinks that way? We think in terms of 102 buildings, not in terms of over 5 nonillion combinations (that's what you call 5 with 30 zeros), so following the same logic there are 25 Civics, not 3125 combinations.
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
yes you forget to 'reset' the group after each count. with the 5 x 20 you are only thinking about one change in the latter 4 but they can have 4 changes...it is 5^5 but i cant explain it properly in english without using dutch words..
I'm affraid you're not right, DeathByTheSword.
IIRC you can only choose at once 2 civic options, for exemple Representation & Burocracy,
but not Representation & Burocracy & SErfdom & Mercantilism & Paganism at the same time.
EDIT : ok, ok, see my next post
Last edited by astrologix; September 29, 2005, 08:37.
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