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  • #46
    In response to various critisims and Ideas here is a refined version.

    When ship and Hurricanes encounter ships their is a mock combat between the ship and storm. The storm has a combat power just like a unit but it ofcorse dose not die if it losses. Storms (2x2) have combat power sufficient to easily destroy/cripple early vessels. Hurricanes can take out mid game ships. By the late game ships will rarely be sunk even by Hurricanes though they will feel some sting. Combat promotions might also be given out to navel units for surviving storms to help mitigate the effects of losses.

    At some point you can discover a "Mererology" tec or something along these lines that will reveal all storms/Hurricanes and other weather events on the planet (it dosent reveal terrain it just show the storm out in the black fog-o-war).

    The point of making the storms persistent each turn was to make them Easier to avoid. Because a storm only moves 2 or 3 spaces each turn if you steer clear of them your safe. On the otherhand plowing strait ahead into the unexplored ocean will be riskier. Much like encountering an IOD in SMAC the safe option is to go slow and be prepared to run away (thus their is strategy involved here). The storms will ofcorse randomly dispate and randomly spawn but the chance that this will happen right on top of your ship is much smaller if the storms spawn rarely which is possible only if they are persistent.

    Hurricanes will ofcorse spawn in equitorial waters and preferentialy move westward. When they hit land they dispate (the smaller storms also dispate when they make landfall but they have no effect when they do so). The tile that the eye hits has a high probability of lossing one or more improvments much like a Fungal Pop in SMAC. A coastal city might loss populaton or more likly some city improvments. Ocean based improvments can also be wreched by Hurricanes.

    It sounds like many people are oposed to strong random events of any type, their would ofcorse be a way to toggle random events (hell where supposed to be able to mod the game down to the source code). I like and always use random events in SMAC but the storms proposed here are hardly worse then the ever-present mind worms of SMAC which give the player something to "fight" against in the early game.
    Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators, the creator seeks - those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest. - Thus spoke Zarathustra, Fredrick Nietzsche

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
      It sounds like many people are oposed to strong random events of any type, their would ofcorse be a way to toggle random events (hell where supposed to be able to mod the game down to the source code). I like and always use random events in SMAC but the storms proposed here are hardly worse then the ever-present mind worms of SMAC which give the player something to "fight" against in the early game.
      We already have them in Civ series. They are called "barbarians".

      On a gameplay point of view, there is a serius problem with this kind of "catastrophic events": they hit the weaker civ more hard than any already strong.
      None want a game where you know you are the sure winner after the first millenium.
      While the target of a long, great game is to keep things balanced enough to keep the player happily involved, any random event that will weaken an already weakened country is *bad for game*, realistic or not.

      Pollution tried to force the more productive country to slow down spending research turns into ecology-related discoveries, producing environment friendly city buildings (mass transit, recycle center) instead of units/financial buildings, keeping ready a mass of expensive workers for cleaning purpose.

      We need something on the same line (without the "wack a mole" part, of course ).
      "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
      - Admiral Naismith

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
        In response to various critisims and Ideas here is a refined version.
        Because a storm only moves 2 or 3 spaces each turn if you steer clear of them your safe.
        Since when a multiple-years lasting storm is realistic on Earth ?
        M. le Comte

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        • #49
          Since when is

          -unlimited RR moves
          -transport through land and sea going slower than a snail
          -cities at the size of a small country
          -leaders living 6000 years
          -despotic republics and democracies

          realistic on Earth?

          It's all(and more) in Civ.
          Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
          I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
          Also active on WePlayCiv.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by M. le Comte


            Since when a multiple-years lasting storm is realistic on Earth ?

            You've never lived in Manchester, clearly.
            Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

            ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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            • #51
              Heavens no!
              He who knows others is wise.
              He who knows himself is enlightened.
              -- Lao Tsu

              SMAC(X) Marsscenario

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              • #52
                Originally posted by molly bloom
                You've never lived in Manchester, clearly.
                I hope I won't ever...
                Last edited by M. le Comte; August 8, 2005, 11:56.
                M. le Comte

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Nikolai
                  Since when is realistic on Earth?...
                  -unlimited RR moves
                  That's realistic ! It's normal that yours units have unlimited moves when using railroads. Even crossing the whole Asia with the Transsiberian takes less than three weeks ! And a turn is at least one full year.

                  Originally posted by Nikolai
                  -transport through land and sea going slower than a snail
                  Ok, there you're right. But this doesn't mean it should not change...

                  Originally posted by Nikolai
                  -cities at the size of a small country
                  So very small "country then". Let's say "the size of a region" or "the size of an agglomeration". And it doesn't shock me that in a game called "civilization", we don't run villages.

                  Originally posted by Nikolai
                  -leaders living 6000 years
                  er... I don't want to die every three turns.
                  M. le Comte

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by M. le Comte
                    er... I don't want to die every three turns.
                    And some people don't want to have their civ to get severly wounded every now and then. It's the same thing really. Both would be problematic from a gameplay point of view.
                    Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
                    I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
                    Also active on WePlayCiv.

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                    • #55
                      I am a supporter of random events, but not a supporter city-destroying types of events. The main reason I support them is because they'd add a bit of flavor and variety to the game. Civilization is basically a complex board game. I see random events as a sort of 'chance card' that gets drawn from a deck each turn. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If balance between weak and strong civs is an issue, the 'random event calculator' could be made to roll more favorably for the weaker, and less favorably for the stronger.

                      Visible, multi-turn storms are a bit weird to me though. If a storm was visible for just one turn, then maybe I'd be okay with that, but I'd prefer a behind-the-scenes random roll to a visible storm.
                      "Every time I have to make a tough decision, I ask myself, 'What would Tom Cruise do?' Then I jump up and down on the couch." - Neil Strauss

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Xorbon
                        If balance between weak and strong civs is an issue, the 'random event calculator' could be made to roll more favorably for the weaker, and less favorably for the stronger.
                        I completely disagree. I like random events, but if the game is unbalanced, the fix is to rebalance the game, not to drive players nuts by manipulating the rng to tear them down when they get big. Random events cannot be enjoyable without being truly random.

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                        • #57
                          One idea I've had is for a random event (or even the outcome of the random aspects of battles) being decided several turns before being announced or played out. That way, players won't be as inclined to load an earlier turn just to try to change the outcome.

                          I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement, though...
                          Known in most other places as Anon Zytose.
                          +3 Research, +2 Efficiency, -1 Growth, -2 Industry, -2 Support.
                          http://anonzytose.deviantart.com/

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by TimeTraveler
                            One idea I've had is for a random event (or even the outcome of the random aspects of battles) being decided several turns before being announced or played out. That way, players won't be as inclined to load an earlier turn just to try to change the outcome.

                            I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement, though...
                            It's a quite common code, indeed.
                            It's called "seed" series. Random events usually aren't "random" at all, but are computeted given a different seed to obtain different series of numbers (battle odds, virtual dice numbers, etc.).

                            If the programmer save the seed before the turn take place, you get same effect (same "random" computing series of numbers) every time you rollback reloading last turn.

                            IIRC, in Civ the seed concept is already used with free villages, to define the kind of bonus or horde of barbarians you'll get out.

                            Seed concept is also used with terrain generators, to produce the same map every time you use the same seed.
                            "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
                            - Admiral Naismith

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Anaximander
                              I kind of like the idea myself. However, I don't think that any ships should be immune from the storms effects. Typhoons wreaked havoc on American fleets a couple of times during WWII. Even today, if one of our fleets took a direct hit from a hurricane it would be a disaster. 150 mph winds and 80ft seas do some serious damage.
                              Modern ships with radar should be protected better in storms than small wooden ships.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by SSBLoveU


                                Modern ships with radar should be protected better in storms than small wooden ships.
                                They are better protected by their ability to know the storm is coming and then move accordingly. Storms still seriously damage and sink modern ships.
                                Texas is the greatest country in the world!

                                Historical Rants and Philosophical Dilemmas
                                http://www.geocities.com/jeff_roberts65/

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