Your Worst Fear for Civ 4 (The Negativity Post)

[Senethro]

Originally posted by Sava
My worst fear? The AI sucks because they worried about Multiplayer because of all the MP whiners.

The AI will fail to be a match for a competent player without cheating anyway! Better a MP whiner than someone who only thinks they can play Civ any day.

[Darkstar]

Actually, most customers of Civ4 will still be SP only. So the AI needs to present something of a challenge. At least, to the average consumer who hasn't yet read up on every spec of strategy off of Apolyton.

It would really make Firaxis's productive life a lot easier if they didn't have to bother with any AI, and just let the game by purely MP. That's a lot easier to do then what they are doing now.

Oh well, just a few more weeks until we can see what the first release of CIV plays like.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Senethro


The AI will fail to be a match for a competent player without cheating anyway! Better a MP whiner than someone who only thinks they can play Civ any day.

MP in Civ is blasphemy

it's just wrong

I have never played a MP game of Civ... nor will I, nor have I any desire to.

I only wish I had enough money to buy Firaxis... then I would get rid of multiplayer altogether.

[Senethro]

Originally posted by Sava


MP in Civ is blasphemy

it's just wrong

I have never played a MP game of Civ... nor will I, nor have I any desire to.

I only wish I had enough money to buy Firaxis... then I would get rid of multiplayer altogether.

Even when its single player, Civ is supposed to emulate what is inherently a multiplayer game.

I'm glad people like you don't run the industry as these days my only enjoyment in games comes from the multiplayer modes.

On the other hand, who am I to say that it is wrong that people should find the limited, crippled form of the game available through single player to be enjoyable.

[Solver]

Sava, I do partially share your thoughts, I also greatly prefer SP to MP, but it's just wrong to feel THAT strongly without ever trying MP. Give it a try someday. Just to see how it really is, if for nothing else. I have played MP, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but at the same time, I understood that I still prefer SP.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Solver
Sava, I do partially share your thoughts, I also greatly prefer SP to MP, but it's just wrong to feel THAT strongly without ever trying MP. Give it a try someday. Just to see how it really is, if for nothing else. I have played MP, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but at the same time, I understood that I still prefer SP.

eh? I don't need to stick my hand in a blender to know I wouldn't enjoy that.

The only way MP would be even remotely fun is if I were on a LAN with a bunch of people.

Senethro: and don't misunderstand me... I'm not anti-multiplayer in games... I love multiplayer. I play games like Counter-Strike and Battlefield 2 exclusively multiplayer. But a turn-based strategy game is not condusive to an enjoyable multiplayer experience. Especially a game like Civilization.

Civ is a time consuming game. Especially during later stages of the game. Who the hell wants to sit around for hours on end just waiting for your turn to come around?

The only way a Civ multiplayer experience would be worth it is if there are no AI's at all. That would mean maybe 8 human players in a game. I'm sorry, but that is just a recipe for disaster.

And quite frankly, any time Firaxis is spending on multiplayer, is time they could be spending making a better AI. That's why I would get rid of it.

[Solver]

And what do you think of PBEM? It has the same strategic nature of Civ, and maybe is even more strategic than the average games. The drawback is the extremely long time it takes for a game, but I find PBEM to be a rather interesting option. I myself don't enjoy 3-4 hour online MP games that much, although they can be fun for a change to me.

And not all the time spent on multiplayer is wasted time AI-wise . I'm pretty sure Firaxis has a separate network programmer who is working on most of the multiplayer code.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Solver
And what do you think of PBEM? It has the same strategic nature of Civ, and maybe is even more strategic than the average games. The drawback is the extremely long time it takes for a game, but I find PBEM to be a rather interesting option. I myself don't enjoy 3-4 hour online MP games that much, although they can be fun for a change to me.

never tried it... but honestly, I don't think I would... the best part I like about Civ is waking up in the morning, getting a big jug of coffee and playing for like 4-5 hours straight not getting up until I have to pee really really really bad!

I like to get a game going and play for long stretches at a time. And hopefully, try to finish a game within a week or so.

Also, in regards to MP, one of the things I like best about Civ is my own personal mods. It's very difficult to get people to play MP with you and your own custom mods.

Sure, the AI is not as smart as a human player. But that's part of the fun.

Personally, I don't want the game to keep me on the edge of my seat constantly planning out every single move (and planning a hundred steps ahead) because I'm playing against some uber-l337 civ-nerd. Or worse, playing against some dumb n00b. That's usually the way multiplayer in games is. Either you play someone vastly superior to you, or someone vastly inferior.

I like just sitting back and building an empire against a lot of AI. I make my own personal mods to balance out the AI's flaws.

And not all the time spent on multiplayer is wasted time AI-wise . I'm pretty sure Firaxis has a separate network programmer who is working on most of the multiplayer code.

But still... Firaxis has only so much money to spend on development. The salary they are paying the network code guy is money they could be paying another AI programmer.

I'm not saying that multiplayer NEEDS to be eradicated... I'm saying that my worst fear is that the AI will suck because of the extra attention being paid to multiplayer development. That's all.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Sava

I only wish I had enough money to buy Firaxis... then I would get rid of multiplayer altogether.

[Senethro]

Originally posted by Sava
never tried it... but honestly, I don't think I would... the best part I like about Civ is waking up in the morning, getting a big jug of coffee and playing for like 4-5 hours straight not getting up until I have to pee really really really bad!

This is the bit that always puzzles me, people saying they have no time for MP.

Sure, the AI is not as smart as a human player. But that's part of the fun.

Do you also enjoy 100ms sprints against quadruple amputees with iron prosthetics on a magnetic track?

Personally, I don't want the game to keep me on the edge of my seat constantly planning out every single move (and planning a hundred steps ahead) because I'm playing against some uber-l337 civ-nerd. Or worse, playing against some dumb n00b. That's usually the way multiplayer in games is. Either you play someone vastly superior to you, or someone vastly inferior.

Too late, you're talking about a computer game on the internet, nerd. The resentment of the leet is a characteristic of the mediocre.

I like just sitting back and building an empire against a lot of AI. I make my own personal mods to balance out the AI's flaws.
But still... Firaxis has only so much money to spend on development. The salary they are paying the network code guy is money they could be paying another AI programmer.

They don't need a programmer, they need someone to invent a whole new way of explaining game concepts to the AI in ways they can evaluate better.

I'm not saying that multiplayer NEEDS to be eradicated... I'm saying that my worst fear is that the AI will suck because of the extra attention being paid to multiplayer development. That's all.

As the AI cannot not suck ( does that even make sense?) I doubt that Firaxis would get much better results from more resources put into working on AI. As it is, I'm sure the AI will be adaquate for giving you your power trips.

[Drakan]

Originally posted by Nikolai
You know that ain't going to happen.

Yeah, thanks God for it !

It's still my worst fear for the civ franchise ... nah, that won't happen

[Addled Platypus]

so Sava have you bothered to try the simultaneous moves option in mp?

might make a differnce

If you condem after tryin, at least you tried

PBEM is the mp for me

[Freddz]

I had not much hope for Civ 3. But after a few months of tedium I bought it. I was right not to have the hopes. The game was monotone.
But, pessimist as I can be, I have pretty high hopes for Civ 4. They have introduced some new concepts, and I like them. A small scale revolution just as I like it.
I really like the unit promotions. I really like the Great people. I really really like religion. I like that they want to promote building more as I'm a builder fan. I hope the end game won't be so tedious as before (they say it won't).

Two concerns. First:
I would want an earth map where the civs start at the right locations that come with the box. I heard such a map won't be there. So I'll hope for a really good MOD as I like the Earth maps. But on such a MOD it would be TERRIBLE if starting locations would have to be random and for example the egyptians would have to start in Moscow and so on. TERRIBLE. Yuk. Hope one can place static locations and start the game without tinkering in the files.

Second:
I hope the AI personalities are well developed where one gets a good feel for each one. Remember SMAC? Great personalities there. They took the entire game to a whole new level. Civ 3 had ZERO personalities.
To the point: I would have preferred a lesser number of civs in Civ 4 (say 12) and more time in making extra special units and polishing dialogue and polishing special tactics employed by each civ, as I have a feeling the civs may not be as polished as I would wish. But that would of course have been more time-consuming as some Civs have two leaders. But as I come to expect this small failure from Firaxis, it won't be a terrible disappointment either. I just hope they keep their heads above the water level I set.
Hi guys, btw.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, I have it on good authority that there is an Earth map out of the box, and that it is being developed by Rhye-the creator of the Rhyes of Civilization mod for civ3. That definitely gives me hope regarding how good the Earth map will be !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Protra3211]

Thats a good ponit Freddz. I have yet to play any game with diplomacy to match SMAC,s.
Personalities would draw you in.
Diplomacy is the cornerstone of any Civ game . If Civ4 lacks here it will be like playing Empire Earth.