So Basically We Have Civ 3...but in 3D?

[yin26]

Solver: Regarding Soren, I just think he'll get "The Reynolds Complex" before too long. A talented guy seeing his blood, sweat and tears with the Sid Stamp on it. Can't be good for anybody's psyche!

[Solver]

Well, I can't argue against you here. Based on this, I think you'll probably like Civ 4, and that's great. Did you really find Civ 3 that much better after the X-pack? If so, in what ways? I never gave it another look after the first patch.

The X-packs did change the game. Lots and lots of bugfixes, AI improvements, plus some other extra feautures. I have barely played the expansions myself, though.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by yin26

It´s safe and comfy, feels like home.

Well, I can't argue against you here. Based on this, I think you'll probably like Civ 4, and that's great. Did you really find Civ 3 that much better after the X-pack? If so, in what ways? I never gave it another look after the first patch.

As Solver said it was a lot of fixes that made the game less annoying, like stacked movement and such. I can´t give a detailed list without going back to the original game and see what´s missing though...

[Solver]

On the other hand, I didn't find the expansions particularly great because they didn't fix the things I didn't like about the game, such as:

Full uselessness of navies.
Boring combat system, and only using one unit in a war being enough - or two with artillery support as a pushover.
The 100 Workers problem!! I hope it's fixed in Civ4, I hate it more than ICS.
Lack of Modern Age. You could complete the spaceship at the very start of Modern Age, never getting any action there.

Those were my main complaints about Civ3 that did not get fixed in the expansions, as far as I know.

[Zoid]

True, I rarely have the stamina to cope with the mindnumbingly boring later parts of the game...

[Solver]

Yeah, that was also my problem. You're either at war and spend lots of time just moving your units without action, or are at peace and all you do then is manage Workers. I even let the computer automate them when playing often, as it was too tiresome.

While ideally of course, the modern ages should be just as fun as the early ones .

[yin26]

Thanks for the X-pack info, guys. Sounds like a "pass" this time. Hopefully, as you guys say, Civ 4 will have learned from these things. I'm personally looking to the two of you to give me Day 1 reviews on some of this stuff.

[Solver]

Yes, I'd recommend you pass on the Civ3 expansions. There's better things to do while waiting for Civ4 .

[Zoid]

Originally posted by yin26
Thanks for the X-pack info, guys. Sounds like a "pass" this time. Hopefully, as you guys say, Civ 4 will have learned from these things. I'm personally looking to the two of you to give me Day 1 reviews on some of this stuff.

I will do my best.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yin26
curtsibling: To some degree, you have a point. As long as we stay with the old Civ formulas, I won't be happy. That's true. But we've already had 3 releases of basically the same formula, so why not either let the series die a good death (you know, retire and stay retired with a little dignity) or take it in a bold new direction? -- I could describe a bold new direction, but so could anybody else, so I won't waste time.

That's simple. Firaxis is targetting an audience, and they know that they can't please everybody. If the game changes too much (like CtP did), it would probably flop. If the game focussed too much on the needs of the fans vs the casual players, the customer base would shrink dramatically.

If you don't belong to Civ4's aimed audience, there's no use whining, just move along.

[sophist]

If I understand your argument correctly (yin), you believe that simply adding more stuff and incrementally improving existing stuff isn't sufficient to produce a different enough game to bring you back. I think you are overlooking that a whole bundle of incremental and evolutionary improvements can produce something truly revolutionary. Is an iPod a fundamentally different thing from the original Walkman? They are both portable music players, after all. The iPod just has more storage, greater convenience, higher sound quality, and a more powerful interface. Or Tivo compared to a VCR. Or lasagna compared to semolina wheat, water, goat's milk, spinach, and tomatoes stirred together in a pot. You have to look past the ingredients and look at the sum of the parts. I won't assert that civ4 will be a magnificent tour de force. I'll just say that you can't dismiss it as just a big bunch of minor improvements, because those minor improvements, if well-chosen and sufficient in number, can produce a fundamentally new and different thing.

[Aro]

Originally posted by yin26
Get your $50 bucks ready, sucker.

Mine is ready.

[Aro]

Actually I'll spend more than $50. I usually buy 3 copies of the game (civ II and civ III, at least): Two for me (one of the cd's lives in my notebook ) and one for my boy (he lives with his mother...)

Yep, I'll get my $150 bucks ready.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Spiffor

That's simple. Firaxis is targetting an audience, and they know that they can't please everybody......

They can't please yin26, that's for sure...

[Adagio]

Two copies for you alone?