Soren, can you confirm on XML Graphics Scaling?

[FrostyBoy]

And people were doubting me asking this question

That will teach you to doubt the modking again. you know who you are

[FrostyBoy]

Just in case people don't see one of the big possibilities in this, I just want to say that if you scaled everything down to say 1/10 or 1/20th of their original size, the land itself (the world) will be/seem to be 20 x larger.

Which is why I said, if you zoom in and tilt the screen, it will feel like you are in a very large world - like world of warcraft.

At least I think I am right.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Sn00py
Just in case people don't see one of the big possibilities in this, I just want to say that if you scaled everything down to say 1/10 or 1/20th of their original size, the land itself (the world) will be/seem to be 20 x larger.

Which is why I said, if you zoom in and tilt the screen, it will feel like you are in a very large world - like world of warcraft.

At least I think I am right.

You probably are, but is it really practical for a game like Civ? Warcraft has very small maps, you can get away with tight perspectives. But in Civ, you need a good overview to keep track of your troops and those of the other civs. If you go down to 1/20th, you'd probably have a hard time doing so.

Then again, will we have the ability to tilt the screen? If Pirates! is any indication, we won't. Camera controls are rather limited in that game. Civ will no doubt have better zoom control, but I'm guessing it won't have much in the way of tilt.

I agree that some scaling is in order though. I've been thinking that what I've been seeing on the screen shots is rather clunky, but I think a 25 - 50% reduction would be more realistic.

[FrostyBoy]

No, apparently in CivIV, the screen can be moved, rotated and tilted quite easily.

So actually, a better comparison would be Black and White, instead of World of Warcraft.


So if you want an overview of a larger area, no problem, just zoom out.

Want to get in close to the action, just zoom in. It doesn't matter how big it is.

But I think the main "illusion" is that if you make everything small (and to scale with each other), then the world size appears larger. So like I said, make everything 20x smaller, the world appears to be 20x larger.

Though I don't know how tiles work in the game, if it can be scaled, then great, if not, then units will cross a large spanse of land from one tile to another - probably not a bad thing actually, since it will seem as if your armies have travelled a long way in one turn. (which is supposed to represent years)

[Willem]

Originally posted by Sn00py
So if you want an overview of a larger area, no problem, just zoom out.

Want to get in close to the action, just zoom in. It doesn't matter how big it is.

There will be an effective limit though. Zoom out far enough, and you won't be able to see any of your troops anymore, so your view would be useless from a strategic standpoint. It does create some interersting possibilities though.

And I'm sure you'll be one of the first to experiment with the limits.

BTW, I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with as far as terrain graphics for Civ 4. I think what you've done for 3 is awesome!

[Aro]

Originally posted by Willem

................................

BTW, I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with as far as terrain graphics for Civ 4. I think what you've done for 3 is awesome!

Agreed. Sn00py's terrain v. 4.1 is my default. A beauty.

[Vince278]

Can't go wrong with an El Mency map and Sn00py graphics.

[Nikolai]

'Poly artists
'Poly always has had good artists, scenario makers and modders, but I suspect we will get even more and not least better results with the new game out.

[Skanky Burns]

[Niptium]

I agree that making units smaller would make it more realistic. But if you make the trees smaller (the 3 or 4 trees that fill one square) ... It will be ridiculous. Because you won't be able to add trees in the square wich will make the map very empty...

[FrostyBoy]

There might be an option to set how many number of tree's there are per tile.

So at the moment there might be 20 tree's per tile, if you shrink it 4 times, then you just set the number of tree's to 80.

I'm just guessing this though. But I would not be surprised if this is how its done either, considering it is all 3D.

[Vince278]

This all sounds great as long as we don't get too carried away making changes.

[Son of moose]

I have certainly been following this particular thread with GREAT interest.

Snoopy must be congratulated for even thinking of this possibility and Soren must be thanked for his extremely helpful reply.

It will most certainly be an awesome prospect (although, understandably, not to everyone's liking) to be able to play a version (read mod) of Civ 4 where:

# The tiles are significantly larger (maybe 20x their current size .... maybe even more)

# The buildings are also significantly larger .... possibly almost in proportion to the currently oversized units

# The trees and other fauna can also be accurately scaled in proportion to the units and the buildings

Unfortunately (unlike Sn00py) I am not overly familiar with the Warcraft series but I would imagine that these alterations would (hopefully) provide one with the graphic feel of the following:

# The Ancient period .... Age of Empires; Age of Mythology.

# The Medieval period .... Age of Kings; Stronghold; LotR: BFME.

# The Modern period .... C and C: Generals.

[I am sure that other members have their own "popularist" RTS favourites. However, hopefully these comparisons are somewhat valid .... just imagine playing a truly challenging and complex game like Civ 4 on this particular scale. Imho, the best of both worlds .... ].

Perhaps, allowing myself to be slightly carried away by the possibilities, I am wondering whether the following elaboration just might be feasible:

Seeing that ALL the city buildings are now going to appear on the main game map (hopefully properly scaled .... see above), would it be remotely possible for someone to make a mod whereby the following could be achieved:

# A further sub-division of the current tile-sized grid, whereby an oversized tile (either 20x their current size .... maybe even more) could be divided into a 10x10 (or whatever) configuration. This development might just open the ability to be actually able to place ones fully-scaled buildings around each city. Although not absolutely essential for game play (it might present an interesting extra for all CB fans), this option could surely be used to great effect in the editor. The truly creative and innovative scenario designer would then be able to totally customise his/her map as is possible in ALL of the abovementioned "popularist" RTS games.

Another quick afterthought:

Maybe Sn00py (or another master modder and graphics artist) might be prepared to "touch up" the Civ 4 tiles as the abovementioned oversized versions (either 20x their current size .... maybe even more) would surely loose a huge amount of definition and therefore look fairly bland. Therefore a set of more finely detailed tiles would seem to be a necessity ....

Perhaps Sn00py can try to assemble a suitably qualified "Mod Squad" to work on this truly ambitious Civ 4 mod as soon as the game is released. As I have intimated before (in another thread), it would be extremely wasteful for a dozen people to work separately (and independently) on such a major project. A team of like-minded fans (with different areas of expertise) will be able to achieve MUCH MORE than a set of independently functioning individuals.

[FrostyBoy]

I guess we will have to wait and see when CivIV is released.

The first thing I will do is load it up, play 1 game to the end, then mod the whole thing to what I think it should be.

Which of course would be to scale everything and make the world seem quite large.

Then I would look into changing the graphics, but I'm not exactly sure how that is going to work or if it is even possible considering it is all in low polygon 3D.

[Son of moose]

Sn00py:

Great stuff!!!

or if it is even possible considering it is all in low polygon 3D.

I suppose that this could be somewhat problematic .... unless a clever programmer can somehow manage to upgrade the polygon count (and, therefore, the definition possible for enlarged buildings, trees, terrain, etc).