CIv4... Beware the planned obsolescence!!!

[MarkG]

i presume civs can be ADDED with a mod perhaps. e.g. a fan mod early after release could add 10 more civs without having to wait for the expansion and make aeveryone happy?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by 1889

CivIII was a big improvment over CivII. I never expected MP to be part of it, and enjoyed playing against the computer for over a year.

I´m not a MP fan either (never played Civ in MP actually) but I know a lot of people wanted it in the original Civ3. But Firaxis/Atari decided to hold out on this and other things, just to be able to make some extra $. That´s just plain greed

I'm looking forward to playing CivIV

I do to. I´ll buy it as soon as it hits the store, if not sooner

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

But my point is that the different traits in Civ3 don't really make that much difference. Do you really play that much different with an militaristic/industrious Civ compared to a religious/scientific etc etc.

Yes. There is a world of difference in playstyle between, say, Babylon and Scandinavia.

Well, I must politely disagree

May be is my fault, because I'm not so a good player, but a good strategist IMHO was Velociryx, and he skinned alive the limited strategic choice you can have in a plain Civ III game. SMAC forced really different playstyle, as I remember, and Vel showed some knowledge about it: he wrote a handbook about it
Ask him for reference, if you please.

That's not to say SMAC was better than Civ III, OT at this point, only to agree with Bogdanovist that too many civs were mostly good for ahestetic reasons, and for the "ehi sweet, look, there is our nation too!" marketing effect.

[Solver]

Exactly, the Civ 3 civs weren't that different, compared to SMAC at least. What's the point of having many more anyway, especially if the traits repeated themselves for different civs in Civ3? Quality matters, not quantity. We should have the ability to have many civs at once in the game, but I assume we can play with all 18 Civs in Civ4, which will be way enough.

In Civ3, the Unique Unit along with traits sure could make a difference, for instance, the Persian Immortals were so good that they were asking for you to get Iron ASAP and make an Immortal rush to run over your neighbours. But these differences still aren't as large. In SMAC, Spartans should beeline for rover & weapons tech, enhance morale modifiers, and run everyone over with a vastly superior force, Morganites need to establish a core number of their smaller bases soon, switch to Free Market and prepare to use their money, while the University should expand quickly to make use of the science bonus in each city and thus quickly gain the tech lead.

[Robert]

I bought:

civilization: $5
civilization 2: $50
civilization2 MPG: $40
civilization2 tot: $40
civilization 3: $50
civilization 3 PtW: $40
civilization C3C: $40
--------------------------
total: $265

hours played:
civilization: 500?
civilization 2: 1000?
civilization 3: 400?
-----------------------------
total: 3800

265 / 3800 = $0.12 per hour
man, that's really cheap!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I bought:

civilization: $5
civilization 2: $50
civilization2 MPG: $40
civilization2 tot: $40
civilization 3: $50
civilization 3 PtW: $40
civilization C3C: $40
--------------------------
total: $265

hours played:
civilization: 500?
civilization 2: 1000?
civilization 3: 400?
-----------------------------
total: 3800

265 / 3800 = $0.12 per hour
man, that's really cheap!

You might want to check your math, fanboi. It's wrong in several places.

[MarkG]

you should count in your apolyton hours too

[Harovan]

Originally posted by MarkG
you should count in your apolyton hours too

I even get paid for mine . Oh the horror...

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I even get paid for mine . Oh the horror...

/me clicks the secret "tracking employee information based on IP address" link on Sir Ralph's post

[Solver]

Originally posted by MarkG
you should count in your apolyton hours too

If so, my cost for civ per hour would drop to 0.01 probably . Then again, maybe the cost of Internet bills should be factored in.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MarkG
i presume civs can be ADDED with a mod perhaps. e.g. a fan mod early after release could add 10 more civs without having to wait for the expansion and make aeveryone happy?

Definately. So there's no worries.

The only reason this didn't happen with C3 on release was because vanilla C3 could only have 16 civs per game anyway.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MarkG
you should count in your apolyton hours too

If I actually counted them, I would cry.

[AeonOfTime]

@ew0054: only going to have 18 civilizations *cut* Do the math *cut* Hardly worth it *cut* Just don't get sucked in!

I started saving money each month for buying civ4 when there were starting to be rumours about it, just in case. By the time it comes out, I'll be able to buy the game along with some nice munchables for maximum enjoyability - and as I won't stop saving money in anticipation for the expansions, I'll be able to get those along with some more nice munchables. So much for getting rid of the cost factor...

...and right on to the 'evil game companies want to suck our blood' thing: have you considered that 'bleeding your wallet dry' by giving Firaxis 'more' money by buying the game the way you are supposed to buy it, you are supporting the development of the subsequent Civ instalments? Hell, I'm so happy they are making Civ4 a reality...

...and there is even more to ponder: all right, many game companies follow the 'release base version followed by X expansion sets' economic strategy, but there are actually those that do this because they NEED TO. Civ isn't the most profitable game in the gaming scene - the fanbase may be near to fanaticism, but you don't have the same fanbase than, let's say, The Sims. So in a sense, you could try to use this argument to cool down your insurgence as Firaxis are not doing it for the same reasons...

...but that's not all yet! Let's say Firaxis decides to make an epic Civ4 with all planned expansion packs directly on release. That would be no small investment, as it would mean adding a little less than one year of development. That's quite a huge investment - and nothing guarantees that the game will be sold better enough to cover the additional costs by having 200 civs in it instead of 18.

Actually, by releasing a base version, you can limit the damage if the community does not like the new version - so it is actually also about SURVIVAL. And if the game sells well, you know the community will want new stuff to play with, and you can make money by providing the additional fun. Sounds pretty okay to me, as long as I have fun - that's what makes games worthwile, and I'm damn well going to support that...

...nuff said.

[Solver]

...and there is even more to ponder: all right, many game companies follow the 'release base version followed by X expansion sets' economic strategy, but there are actually those that do this because they NEED TO. Civ isn't the most profitable game in the gaming scene - the fanbase may be near to fanaticism, but you don't have the same fanbase than, let's say, The Sims. So in a sense, you could try to use this argument to cool down your insurgence as Firaxis are not doing it for the same reasons...

Civ is now more mainstream, Civ3 sold over a million copies, but it's still relatively a niche game, when you compare it to some other big coming releases, such as Age of Empires 3 or F.E.A.R. Civ4 can't hope to compete with AoE3 in the number of copies sold, and the expansion is good for the profit it provides Firaxis. However, no decent company will avoid some good feautures in a game only to add them to the expansion.

[AeonOfTime]

Civ is now more mainstream, Civ3 sold over a million copies, but it's still relatively a niche game, when you compare it to some other big coming releases

That's true, and will be even more true of Civ4 if they get it right. That's okay as it can give Firaxis the financial 'backend' to do some great expansions... But I agree that good features should not be exclusive to expansions.