CIv4... Beware the planned obsolescence!!!

[ew0054]

Before we dive into how great Civ4 will be (I for one am losing sleep over the anticipation), let us step back and notice a few things.

First off, they're only going to have 18 civilizations. Civ3 offered 31, but only with an expansion pack.

Being a die-hard Civ fan since the beginning (I own the DOS and SNES versions of CIv1), I can see how this company works. They'll be releasing Civ4 vanilla at the end of the year. As soon as sales drop off, they'll be releasing another "pumped up" version, like the Civ3 Play the World, which may offer a few more civs and buildings.

Why am I so skeptical over this? Do the math. Civ3 vanilla cost me $49.99 at Staples. Within, I got all (I forget how many) civilizations and buildings that came with it. No problem so far.

But then, when I bought the Play the World expansion pack, all I got for my $24.99 (half the cost of the original game), was three new city improvements, a great wonder, and a handful of other civilizations. Hardly worth it; I didn't get anythign close to 50 per-cent extra goodies for my 50 per-cent-of-the-cost investment.

Not to mention they also made multiple installments of Civ2.

The bottom line? I think that, as heartbreaking as the thought may be, I'm gonna stay playing Civ3 for a year or so after the Civ4 release, and I would suggest others do the same. Maybe Firaxis will take a hint and put out a full-fledged game at once instead of a mediocre one.

Lastly, if they do make updates, here are some ideas for that. they should either make them free downloads, or if they want to charge, it should be only a few dollars. Or perhaps they can sell a subscription for unlimited updating your software for $X/month.

Just don't get sucked in!

[Nikolai]

Do as you please, I will get it.

[Senethro]

Expansion packs are going to play merry hell with modding efforts.

[Spiffor]

I see nothing wrong with expansion packs. With a good expansion-pack, a developer can fine-tune so that it takes into account monthes of intensive play by all kinds of audiences. Besides, the developer can add art and stuff that aren't vital to the game, but that refresh it. It allows the game not to be postponed for another year.

Last but not least, an expansion pack is much cheaper to develop than the actual game, and as such it brings in some money, so that someone can continue to support the game. Post-release support is extremely important (as the CTP2 fans know ), and the company must be confident of a future income in order to afford it.

[Bogdanovist]

Re: CIv4... Beware the planned obsolescence!!!

Originally posted by ew0054
Before we dive into how great Civ4 will be (I for one am losing sleep over the anticipation), let us step back and notice a few things.

First off, they're only going to have 18 civilizations. Civ3 offered 31, but only with an expansion pack.

Being a die-hard Civ fan since the beginning (I own the DOS and SNES versions of CIv1), I can see how this company works. They'll be releasing Civ4 vanilla at the end of the year. As soon as sales drop off, they'll be releasing another "pumped up" version, like the Civ3 Play the World, which may offer a few more civs and buildings.

Why am I so skeptical over this? Do the math. Civ3 vanilla cost me $49.99 at Staples. Within, I got all (I forget how many) civilizations and buildings that came with it. No problem so far.

But then, when I bought the Play the World expansion pack, all I got for my $24.99 (half the cost of the original game), was three new city improvements, a great wonder, and a handful of other civilizations. Hardly worth it; I didn't get anythign close to 50 per-cent extra goodies for my 50 per-cent-of-the-cost investment.

Not to mention they also made multiple installments of Civ2.

The bottom line? I think that, as heartbreaking as the thought may be, I'm gonna stay playing Civ3 for a year or so after the Civ4 release, and I would suggest others do the same. Maybe Firaxis will take a hint and put out a full-fledged game at once instead of a mediocre one.

Lastly, if they do make updates, here are some ideas for that. they should either make them free downloads, or if they want to charge, it should be only a few dollars. Or perhaps they can sell a subscription for unlimited updating your software for $X/month.

Just don't get sucked in!

So what your saying is that Firaxis is a commercial enterprise that needs to make a profit to survive. What you describe is exactly the same as how any other gaming company operates in terms of expansion packs. I'll definately buy CIV and unless it is somehow completely botched despite the good things we've heard so far, I'll most likely buy the inevitable expansion packs, not beacause I've been 'sucked in' by their sneaky tactics but because the product it worth it. Gaming companies, like any other are going to try and get as much money from you as they can. If they make a good product buy it and keep they good companies alive, if the game is crap, don't buy the expansion or the sequel and the bad companies will fail.

[Kuciwalker]

That's a very odd post from a self-ascribed Bogdanovist.

[Bogdanovist]

yeah you got me on that one....

[alva]

How many hours have you played Civ3? Civ (all of them, actually, this applies to most games) are about the cheapest hobby a man can have IMO, providing you're not buying your PC especially for it.

Even if you only play one epic game, you've made a pretty damn good investment.

[MarkG]

$49.99

that's how many 2-hours-long movie tickets?

[Gramphos]

Re: CIv4... Beware the planned obsolescence!!!

Originally posted by ew0054
But then, when I bought the Play the World expansion pack, all I got for my $24.99 (half the cost of the original game), was three new city improvements, a great wonder, and a handful of other civilizations. Hardly worth it; I didn't get anythign close to 50 per-cent extra goodies for my 50 per-cent-of-the-cost investment.

Play the World was mostly a multiplayer expansion, so if you don't do MP there isn't really mush SP content in it that could justify the buying of it, unless you are a hardcore fan and must have the latest. IIRC thre eresomehintsabout a second expansion already when PTW got out. You could have waited then.

I for sureamging to get Civ4 from start. I don'twant tofallbehind in modding.I really hope the SDK does what they promisses.

[Locutus]

Re: CIv4... Beware the planned obsolescence!!!

Originally posted by ew0054
Being a die-hard Civ fan since the beginning (I own the DOS and SNES versions of CIv1), I can see how this company works.

What you're describing is not just how this company works, it's how every gaming company works. Probably about 70-80% of the new releases are expansion packs or sequels. And Hollywood isn't much better. For movies the "special editions", "director's cuts" and sequels and stuff probably take up a similar share. Like it or not, that's just how the entertainment industry works...

But if you don't want to spend your money on Civ, what do you want to spend it on? For those €45 you would likely pay for Civ4, you could probably buy 2-3 movie DVDs or music CDs (at least that's the case where I live), and how much entertainment do these offer? Maybe 3 hours each? So that's 10 hours max.

Other games then? As established, they use the same marketing strategy as Firaxis and Atari did for Civ3 (if not worse -- how many expansion packs haven't there been for The Sims?) Also, many games typically aim to offer about 20-30 hours worth of gameplay experience for the SP game (MP usually isn't factored in). Some offer more, some less, but that's probably a reasonable estimate of the average. Civ4 will offer 20 hours of gameplay per game. So even if you play only once with every civ, you still get 12-18 times the amount of gameplay out of Civ4 than out of the average video game. And that's not taking into account the various different map types, the scenarios, the mods, the MP options, etc.

I'll be the first to agree with you that the games industry is milking its customers. But trust me, even if they charge €80 for Civ4 and release 5 expansion packs, you'll likely still get a better deal than with most other games.

[Ninot]

with the exception of that which God(or nature, or my mother, or whatever your religion would have you believe) has given us, I have found Civ3 to be one of the most cost effective ways to enjoy myself at $49.99

Not the cheapest way, but its less publically shameful (usually)

[KyuuA4]

Indeed. I was overly disappointed to learn that Civ 3 was incomplete.

So, yes. I will wait as well.

[Alex]

First you should play Civ4. If you like the game, I dare you not to buy the expansion packs.

[Kuciwalker]

I just hope modded code people have written doesn't get screwed up with the expansions.