Trireme vs Battleship

[MattPilot]

It kinda goes like this...


At first there was the infantry. The enemy developed a weapon (tank) to defeat infantry more easily. This was then countered by ATG's & TD's. Then came along other shat to defeat those new weapons.

Same with ships. At first was the cargo ship or merchant vessel. Then someone had the brilliant idea of building a ship with cannons on it to sink cargo ships. The other guy then built a bigger ship to counter the threat. This went on and on and on until someone came up with a super ship called the battleship.

get it?

[Kuciwalker]

Who are you talking to?

[MattPilot]

to those who question the need for a navy or the purpose of the ships.

[KyuuA4]

What travels along shipping lanes? (Transports.)

Transports do not carry freight.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Didn't they need troops to actually project power, though?

Not necessarily. Marines were introduced (in Europe) by the Dutch and English navies in the 17th Century.

Navies had been projecting power beyond the local boundaries of states before then.

Even bombarding coastal towns can act as a deterrent against future hostility or to force one's will on powers far away from the homeland- the British in China or at Zanzibar, the Americans in Japan for instance.

Setting aside that, vessels could also interrupt the flow of trade between parts of a widely dispersed empire- as the Dutch and English did with Spain and Portugal, or the French in the Indian Ocean during the American War of Independence.

The United States owes a great deal to a French commander who was a bailli of Malta:

http://www.xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/marine.htm#suffren

http://www.xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/suffren.htm

[Last Conformist]

@Kuci: In real life, one of the chief functions of navies is to keep the seas open to trade. In CivIII, that's for all practical purposes a non-issue.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
What travels along shipping lanes? (Transports.)

As others have said, transports aren't what would be on shipping lanes. Its just... shipping lanes aren't exactly in Civ. Oh Well.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Mace
We do. Just pull the worker off that tile, and let another city work that same tile instead.

That's not flexible enough for me. You're still being forced to make an unrealistic choice between optimal city placement and having enough coastal cities to develop a meaningful navy.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
@Kuci: In real life, one of the chief functions of navies is to keep the seas open to trade. In CivIII, that's for all practical purposes a non-issue.

That's protecting transports. The issue is that there isn't much in the way of piracy.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Not necessarily. Marines were introduced (in Europe) by the Dutch and English navies in the 17th Century.

IIRC the Greeks and Romans had marines that were used to board other ships..

Even bombarding coastal towns can act as a deterrent against future hostility or to force one's will on powers far away from the homeland- the British in China or at Zanzibar, the Americans in Japan for instance.

I'm referring to ancient times. I assume there was very little significant bombardment from ships pre-gunpowder.

Setting aside that, vessels could also interrupt the flow of trade between parts of a widely dispersed empire- as the Dutch and English did with Spain and Portugal, or the French in the Indian Ocean during the American War of Independence.

The problem is just that trade isn't represented physically very well in C3. It's possible to blockade a country, but it requires that every possible sea route be blocked.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KyuuA4
Transports do not carry freight.

Yes they do

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
That's protecting transports. The issue is that there isn't much in the way of piracy.

I sure do hope you're not thinking that piracy is a non-issue in RL anymore. If so I recommend checking on the Malacca Strait...

[Kuciwalker]

I meant in civ.

[GeoModder]

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


That's protecting transports.

No it is not.

Protecting transports: Escorting military troop shipments (and the odd Settler).

Keeping trade lanes open: Making sure your overseas trade is not interrupted by enemy warships.

The later is pretty much a non-issue in CivIII, since the only way to impact overseas trade at all is physically blocking every single potential route, which is practically always more effort than it's worth. The result is that even with no navy at all, you can be reasonably confident that your overseas trade won't be impacted by a war against a naval power. This removes one of the major real-world incentives to build a navy.