The List for Civ IV: Final Version

[alms66]

You do realize that 90% (I haven't actually done the math, but it's close enough) of it is just rehashed from the Civ3 list? You should have just taken an exact copy of the Civ3 list, crossed out the 3, add a four, and attatch a small appendix of the new stuff. It would have sent a stronger statement.

[Nikolai]

Would not have worked. Lots of things work too different and quite a few ideas was implemented, if not like we wanted it to. Besides, you could try to value the work done here, alms.

[alms66]

Actually very few of the ideas from the Civ3 list were implemented, and most of the old ideas are still valid, though some aren't. The point of resending it would have been to say that we still felt that those ideas were valid and still deserve consideration.

I'm not trying to devalue the time you guys have put into this list, it just seems like such a waste of time to go through the same set of ideas each time a new version of Civ comes out. It's much better to edit the old list, delete things that are no longer relevant to the newer version of the game, update old ideas if they are still wanted, and append any new additions to the old list, rather than rehash many of the same ideas.

Just as one minor example, Canals were listed as a feature to add in the Civ3 list. They weren't added to Civ3, and someone proposed it again for the Civ4 list. It's a case of reinventing the wheel. Why do that?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by alms66
It's a case of reinventing the wheel. Why do that?

Easy: Because your neighbor refuses to trade the tech with you.

[alms66]

Originally posted by Trip

Easy: Because your neighbor refuses to trade the tech with you.

Errr... I hate that.
go away.

[Brent]

Absolutely, I'd say anyone can put any ideas of mine that aren't already there in the existing wiki or a new one (as if anyone would want to). I guess if there's anything of mine that other people want me to add myself they could indicate it.

I figured DC would want to (and deserve to) deliver the reins of listing to someone else, if there were to be any more. Maybe I'd even feel like running something myself when the time comes for Civ5, but I still think someone else would be more qualified, both at that point and for anything previous.

I like to think that they did their best to include what they could from the Civ3 list in the Civ3 game. I like their results.

I wonder if I unwittingly repeated other peoples wishes from the Civ3 list. I'm sure at least some of my stuff was new. I do think the Civ3 list should have been a starting point for the new one.

[DarkCloud]

alms66
Well, for the most part, the 'repeats' from the Civ III list weren't exactly by design. We didn't cut/paste at all. The individual threadmasters may have used a few ideas from the original list, but the large mass of ideas were created by and for Civ III players who wanted to design Civ IV based upon the concepts that succeeded and/or failed in Civ III.

While it is good to take some ideas from elder lists- it is a much more productive matter to remaster the ideas and redesign them based upon new experiences- that is, new games that are released. You see, the civ-franchise and peoples' tastes are ever evolving, and so new interpretations are needed.

That being said, I share your sentiments about a mild disappointment that more ideas from the List weren't implemented, but I can understand that Firaxis wouldn't want to 'radically redesign civ' and anyways- the title of the original list was "If Just One Idea..." And therefore it was fulfilled.

[DarkCloud]

Brent
You're right when you imply that I think it would be good if someone else took over the reigns of the next list. It's always good to get new blood, new perspectives and a new layout to re-infuse interest in a project.

[Akideoni]

O_o).o0O (HELLO!)

[Nikolai]

Please, don't spam this thread.

[yin26]

Hearty congratulations to DarkCloud and everybody who put their blood, sweat and tears in to the effort. While Civ3 was, for me, a disappointment, I think that a fan effort like this can only help the design and programming teams to feel the full weight of just how many gamers depend on the Civ series to keep solid, thoughtful gaming alive.

Back when I joined Apolyton, I was Yin26. Well, I'll be "Yin34" on my next birthday in April. Looking back, the greatest satisfaction I had here, despite all the drama, was in getting that list to Firaxis. Had only Brian stayed on there, Civ 3 would have been a dream come true, I'm sure. I have to say, though, Rise of Nations was no slouch!

All this is to say I recall now a bit of the feelings DarkCloud and others must be having, and I salute you -- and this community that has served us all so well. My life is finally slowing down enough that I am ready to game again. I have a top-notch computer (thanks to convincing work that I "have" to be able to work from home, too) just waiting for some wonderfully plodding turns of the next Civ.

--Yin

[alva]

it just seems like such a waste of time to go through the same set of ideas each time a new version of Civ comes out.

Me thinks that's the point...the wasting time part that is.

"The AI should be able to handle every concept of the game with a decent skill."

I'll do my best!

You'd better!

[Fredric Drum]

Ok, there's no way I'm going to read 166 pages. But I really hope you told them to FIX the constant trespassing from Civ3? It's a game-breaker

Trespassing once in a while is OK if the AI is looking for trouble... but it does it all the time because it doesn't know any other way of getting from A to B, so punishing them for it is totally meaningless.

This, plus a few other areas made Civ3 a disappointment, I really hope they get their act together for Civ4

In Sid we trust.... still.

[J the Terrible]

I am just curious, does the list include civ-specific religious city improvements? Is it really too much to add a little realism and have the Arabs build mosques while the French build cathedrals? They dont even need to be different in terms of value, just have different names and different art.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by J the Terrible
I am just curious, does the list include civ-specific religious city improvements? Is it really too much to add a little realism and have the Arabs build mosques while the French build cathedrals? They dont even need to be different in terms of value, just have different names and different art.

There will be a whole new religion feature. We don't know the details yet, but I would imagine different art would come with different religions, considering that there are already different religious architectures in Civ3.