First Civ 4 Screenshots!

[Unspeakable Horror]

They are worse than Civ3! How is that possible? They look like something a 5 year old would draw

I really hope they change them completely or someone else does it after release... really, I can´t imagine how they are going to *improve* them

Anyway it seems the game will be highly modable so I´m not that worried... just a bit

[Locutus]

Civ1 civs, from the top of my head:

1) Romans (white)
2) Russians (white)
3) French (blue)
4) Germans (blue)
5) English (purple)
6) Greek (purple)
7) Egyptians (yellow)
8) Aztec (yellow)
9) Babylonians (green)
10) Zulu (green)
11) Indians (grey)
12) Mongols (grey)
13) Chinese (light blue)
14) Americans (light blue)

Christ, it's been at least 5 years and I still remember them all (at least I'm fairly certain I did, might have forgotten a colour...)

Maybe it would be more difficult to create new civs with the new graphics

I don't think it would be much more difficult to do than making good looking graphics for Civ3: those are usually created using 3D models. So rather than converting those models to sprites and importing those in Civ3, the 3D models can presumably be imported into Civ4 directly (and if a custom file format is used, I'd assume Firaxis would make plugins for popular 3D software available). I think it would actually be an advantage: there would be less graphics out there as one can no longer design graphics with simple 2D programs like Paint, but the quality of what *is* out there will be higher, as only somewhat capable graphics people have the skills to make new graphics.

Or at least any major areas where the editability is seriously deficient?

Compared to Civ3, I can't imagine that, that game wasn't very moddable at all. Compared to Civ2 or CtP2, that would be a much bigger challenge. But if all the static data is in XML and all the graphics/sounds/etc are all in standard file formats (or in formats for which tools are made available by Firaxis), then the key issue will be how well Python will be hooked into the game engine. Civ2 should be easy to supercede as its event language was awfully simple (though still fairly revolutionairy for its time), CtP2 considerably harder but it's by no means impossible.

[Brent]

I still want Civ4 to have multiple graphics modes, maybe even with modes similar to Civ2 or Civ3. It might be good for having a wider variety of scenarios if the graphics are simpler for them.

[Brent]

Most of those civs do sound like they would have been in. I guess you'd be right.

I don't really care as much about the quality I'd be able to do with the graphics as much as being able to get something done without too much effort or particularly time. I don't think I'd qualify as a capable graphics person at all. I have an illogical aversion to downloading things for the game, but I guess there would be at least some stuff in expansions on disc.

I care more about the kind of modding the Civ3 editor more easily did than what the Civ2 editor did.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Brent
I don't really care as much about the quality I'd be able to do with the graphics as much as being able to get something done without too much effort or particularly time. I don't think I'd qualify as a capable graphics person at all. I have an illogical aversion to downloading things for the game, but I guess there would be at least some stuff in expansions on disc.

I think for modding cooperation will be more important for Civilization 4. It's not likely many people will have the skills to AND make graphics AND create maps AND program scripts AND do game balancing (AND all those other skills necessary for making mods/scenarios). We could well see the same situation occuring that's we've seen in the CtP community: teams of people working on large comprehensive mods, rather than indivuduals releasing minor mods and additions that only add 1 unit or change a few basic rules. Having extensive experience with both ways of working, I must say teams are by far the preferable way to work. More fun to do and better results

I care more about the kind of modding the Civ3 editor more easily did than what the Civ2 editor did.

I don't have any real experience with either, but IMHO editors are crap anyway. The limits of what editors can do are set by the programmer of the tool. The limit of text/XML files is a combination of the creativity of the users and the mindset of the programmer: they often allow things the programmer never intended to allow, but which open up whole worlds of new exciting possibilities. And you can always write editors 'on top of' text/XML files.

[Solver]

Wow Locutus, you are being very optimistic on this one... I am for nw very much worried about some of the design decisions. The map view on the screen - I know the graphics will change, but notice how you can't tell where tiles are and what terrain type each one is - I hope it's not what Firaxis are aiming for.

Zooming in? It sounds good, but it also worries me. Will it mean that we'll have to use zoom? Notice the text on the second screen. I want to never be forced to rotate or zoom the view as in some 3D RTS game, this is Civ, dammit! As a disclaimer, I don't care for graphics in Civ as long as they are not downright ugly and confusing.

The individual units gaining experience sounds like it sucks to me, too. This is no RPG or Warcraft - if I have a dozen Knights, why should some of them have extra abilities? Gaining extra HP or such is fine, but not extra abilities.

I am eagerly awaiting the word on combat system (they need to get rid of the current one in favor of something else), terrain improvement (move 120 workers a turn again ?!?) and complexity (please please don't dumb the game down).

That being said, I know that I will still buy Civ4 regardless .

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Solver
Wow Locutus, you are being very optimistic on this one...

Not really. I'm realistic as always, in this case (since we know so little) mostly cautious. But slightly optimistic since I have faith in Soren and what little we have seen is promising (remember that modding is the most important thing for me ).

Zooming in? It sounds good, but it also worries me. Will it mean that we'll have to use zoom? Notice the text on the second screen. I want to never be forced to rotate or zoom the view as in some 3D RTS game, this is Civ, dammit!

Personally I think it's nice to be able to change things around. However, I'm sure it'll be possible to pick one view and stick with it for most of if not the entire game. I wouldn't take those magazine captions too literally: the first caption speaks of making your units smell nice ().

[conmcb25]

This looks promising, and Im not worried about the Graphics right now.

When does the magazine that this article is in hit the news stands? Does anyone know?

[Solver]

Not really. I'm realistic as always, in this case (since we know so little) mostly cautious. But slightly optimistic since I have faith in Soren and what little we have seen is promising (remember that modding is the most important thing for me ).

I have faith in Soren as well... but what we have seen is both promising and alarming, like when they said they'd cut some aspects of the game, make mini-games, and whatnot. I'm cautious because of those points.

Modding is great, and I'm delighted that it will be supported very well. But, all that aside, I still want a game that does not need to have any mods to be playable, which is good out of the box. Besides, you know that I prefer to settle then for one or two variants and play those. But modding support is, of course, great.

Personally I think it's nice to be able to change things around. However, I'm sure it'll be possible to pick one view and stick with it for most of if not the entire game.

If that's the case, I'm happy. What I don't want to see is a game that requires me to use zooming.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Solver
I have faith in Soren as well... but what we have seen is both promising and alarming, like when they said they'd cut some aspects of the game, make mini-games, and whatnot. I'm cautious because of those points.

You really think the elimination of corruption, city riots and pollution would be a major blow to the quality of the game?

And mini-games? I haven't heard of this...

[Brent]

Well maybe I'll be able to do some of the modding I want to do on my own at least. Maybe I'd mainly want to add new Civs, and hopefully I could get away with using the standard units with different colors applied. It's sounding like if there's going to be that much more trouble modding it would be much more useful for the game to release with at least a few more civs than previous versions, like 45, and that civ library expansion idea at least one person had is sounding much more useful. But like I said, I can live without having tons of obscure civs. And it would be nice if Civ would use the kind of technology I hear The Sims has, so ruler animations don't take so much effort.

I may be easy to please in regards to editors. Mostly I want to still be able to do what I could in Civ3, more easily, and more intuitively, and be able to store more civs than Civ3 could, and be able to group city names by internal region and such.

I definitely want to be able to keep track of compass directions. I don't want to accidentally send a unit in the wrong direction. I think there should be a default orientation that you can always return to, and maybe in addition to the arrow keys you can type in N, NE, etc.

Unit abilities don't bother me.

I want to be able to mod, but I don't want to have to mod in order to do everything I want to do. There's the number of civs again.

[FrostyBoy]

Looks like another kids game.

Civilization is a serious game, but Firaxis makes games for kids, so I see little hope for cIV.

Bugger it

[Brent]

I think there are plenty of games out there that aren't good for kids. I want Civ to be good for all ages including kids.

[FrostyBoy]

And Trip, you're doing it again. You did it through Civ3's development, and now you're going to praise Civ4's development.

But Civ3 fell pretty flat for quite some time. Yin26 was your exact opposite, but he turned out to be generally correct.

[Robert]

Can all you "I've seen 2 screenshots and I already made my mind up: the game will suck" guys move over to CFC and pester the firaxis guys away from there, so they'll move back to overhere? Thanks! That would be great!

About multiplayer, were they playing it in Civ3 early in development?

Yes, they were playing already. In the early days we even tried to get the code, which was in the game, to work. (like in the early civ2 days we tried, and managed to, get the civ2 mp code to work)
But for cIIIv it never worked. apparantly they started writing the code, but never finished it.

On the official cIIIv site it said for a very long time that it would include multiplayer. Then we kept on asking about it, since we didn't hear anything about mp for some reason anymore. We kept on pm and asking the firaxis guys. And one day the 'includes mp' line was suddenly gone.

I don't think this will happen again, but just want to be honest: cIIIv vanilla was said to include mp as well.

I do like what I see so far in this thread about cIV!
I'm optimistic. I love cIIIv as well, eventhough there's much critic. Pherhaps I'm easy to please, but in fact I think I'm just not very "It must be 100% the way I want it to be."

that 's the main problem with everyone.
Firaxis should release 1000000 different cIV's, that would please everyone

The bottom line is: please, don't start complaining at this point already.