Do you think ICS has been solved adequately?

[VetLegion]

ICS - Infinite city Spread, Sprawl, Sleaze... we all know the concept. The problem was that in old civ games, it was far more beneficial to have many small underdeveloped cities than it was to have few big, developed ones.

For those who haven't played, Civ III combats ICS through Culture, Corruption and Unhappiness. The concept of Culture is the most innovative way, now it really means something to have old cities with cultural infrastructure.

Do you find that adequate? Or do you find it lacking and would like to see some other way of making big cities count more than small cities?

[Fosse]

ICS is a game killer, in my opinion and that of many others.
And it may be a little weaker, but it is still an ugly and powerful beast.

The Civ 3 corruption and two point settlers don't do it, because when it comes down to it, having more cities still wins the game.

Perhaps more incentive to have larger cities are needed. As it is now, larger cities create unhappiness and provide only the meagre 1 shiled or commerce point for being City size (and then only if you have the right trait!). A model in which large cities generate increasing amounts of commerce might be helpful. As it is now, having 10 workers in 10 cities generates the same commerce as 10 in 1. That could stand some revision.

Also, I'm not so sure that culture combats ICS. It doesn't discourage the player from making more new cities... instead it encourages them to make more old ones. Hence, the All Powerful REX.

[Kuciwalker]

I haven't seen ICS as much of a strategy in C3.

[Fosse]

Not ICS as we remember it from Civ 2 or Alpha Centauri. But what about the Ralphing strategy, building military camps, packing cities with densly overlapping radii, etc.

Also, to keep ICS alive, you can build dozens of 1 shiled cities, feed them with good food square, and turn them all into taxmen.

In Civ 3, just as in previous games, X number of cities are not as good as X+1. Quantity is still more important that quality.

[Brent]

I like ICS. I like having lots of cities to name.

[Myrddin]

How about a minimum size requirement for building city improvements

eg size 6 for barracks
size 12 for university

[muxec]

I'm for reduced corruption

[muxec]

I'm for reduced corruption

[Fosse]

Originally posted by Myrddin
How about a minimum size requirement for building city improvements

eg size 6 for barracks
size 12 for university

I like this from the realism perspectiv, and it's ICS potential.

I also strongly dislike the corruption model. It's been said before, and will be said again and again, but... "Just because Seattle is thousands of miles from DC doesn't mean it takes twenty years to..."



I think that corruption should no longer be used as a tool to hamper ICS, and instead make bigger cities worth more. We can discuss corruption in a forum more suited for it, and likely will one of these days...

[Kuciwalker]

eg size 6 for barracks

And kill early war?

[Dauphin]

I'd be for the minimum city size to build an improvement or unit, but I wonder if that will really make much difference. If you are ICS-ing you tend not to build many improvements in your cities because they take too long and don't provide that much benefit.

[Fosse]

Originally posted by skywalker

eg size 6 for barracks

And kill early war?

Well, of course the numbers and improvments would have to be thought out.
But even if you needed a size six city to build a barraks, early war is hardly "dead." Just changed.

Big Crunch, you have a good point. I still think having requirements to build improvements is a good idea if it has zero impact on ICS (which would of course bring it out of this thread), but it could be a balance issue.... having more improvements that provide a bigger effect in the ancient age, and require population, might slow things down a bit.

[Dauphin]

Perhaps if population (as seen in the demographics screen) paid 'taxes', say 1 gold per 50,000 population, then large cities will become more desirable as they can raise a lot more funds.

5 size 1 cities would collect 1 gold per turn in taxes, whilst 1 size 5 city would provide 3 gold per turn.
1 size 20 city would produce 42 gpt, whilst 4 size 5 cities would only produce 12 gpt.

[pg]

i think fixing or at least changing the nature of ics is very important for civ4. once you change ics you also drastically change the nature of civ so i figure it's not going to change much if at all(like civ3).

[wrylachlan]

Big Crunch

Or, alternatively to using gold, what about commerce in the city center tile. Then you have the option of using the bonus for gold, or for luxury, or science.