Civ4 Units

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kramerman
I thihk most any land unit should be allowed to mkae amphibious attacks, albeit with terrible penalties (or defense gets great postiive modifiers against noo amphibious units) Then marine units have an almost entirely, if not entirely reduced penalty on amphibious attacks

I think only Infantry, maybe only Archers/Longbowmen until Marines.

[Elias]

Why not tanks have you ever herd about the tanks landing on D-day although most of them sunk at omaha so the infantry was left to fend for them self. they need to change invasions around a litttle id like to see helicopters be able to do pick ups and be able to be sent from a carrier. Ever herd of a little war i like to call vietnam(spelled that wrong too)

[Kuciwalker]

First, quit with the run-on sentences. You sound almost like CharlesBHoff

Anyway, I have two reasons for this - first, it provides a greater significant offensive role for foot units, and second IIRC the initial landing was done mostly by waves and waves of marines attacking across the shores. Also, the amphibious tanks can be considered "part" of the Marine unit - which makes sense. Anyway, Tanks already have a significant offensive role, and you don't want them to just be THE attackers.

[Elias]

good point personally id like to see more d-day style invasions made by the AI.

[DarkCloud]

*.*Bump*.*

I had a hard time finding this thread... since it didint' have the {}'s but I finally did (After 2 days) and I'm not going to let get lost again anytime soon

[Elias]

No more Ideas then?

[GePap]

I would prefer armies to single units in a game like civ. Perhaps one way to manage these units better is to give them a range or ZoC: any other command that comes within this range would be engaged by your army.

This range would be set by geography, technology and the type of mission an army has been given. For exmamples, early in the game, the rage is very small, so to get an engagement going, you have to meet them head on. This would be true for most of the game, though as armies become bigger (demographic expansion) and technology better your ZoC improves.

As far as missions, we could have a system in which armies are given simple orders- garrison (unit stays put, purely defensive, does not innititate combat), Guard-defensive again, but over a wider area- you can set an army to cover a strategic spot, like Isthmus or Mountain pass making sure no one get throught.

Then you can have Control, an offensive order in which you seek to eliminate all enemy forces in an area.

[GePap]

Or finally, Besiege, in which you try to destroy only a specific garrison.

[swabby]

Navy Seals

I posted in the combat thread a possible new USA UU.
SNIPER Starting with gunpowder and upgradable to RIFLE SNIPER and INFANTRY SNIPER with appropriate bombard capability and lessened defense value. ELIAS gave me the idea that it could also upgrade to NAVY SEAL with amphibious warfare.

[Elias]

I always wanted a sniper unit but I have yet to see any one make one. I think what we all really want is more options Like being able to have units do little missions and take out specific things wouldent it be nice to have a seal unit that you could send on missions to maby take out a sam in a city that way you could bomb and not have to worry about it.

How many people like the Ctp way of unit grouping?

[Xorbon]

I have a bunch of unit ideas I might like to see in the new game:

1/ New Class of Unit: Amphibious - this would go along with sea, air, and land units; basically, a unit that could travel on both land and sea; an example would be a hovercraft; not to be confused with the Marine "amphibious" assault ability

2/ Retreat Flag - instead of all units with movement >1 having the ability to retreat, there would be a unit flag which could be set on a unit-by-unit basis; so, if you wish, you could have a fast unit that can't retreat, or a foot soldier that can retreat

3/ Helicopter Pick-Up - as others have mentioned, the ability for helicopters to pick foot soldiers up from the battlefield (to complement their ability to drop-off units)

4/ Helicopter Air-Drops from Sea - the ability for helicopters to drop units off from aircraft carriers (others have also mentioned this idea); foot units could board the helicopters from transports

5/ Unit Flag: May Be Bribed - units with this flag 'on' are vulnerable to being bribed to join an opposing civ; flag could be given to mercenary units, for example

6/ Unit Flag: Limited Lifespan - units with this flag 'on' would last only a certain number of turns (adjustable in the editor) before automatically disbanding; the purpose of this ability would be to have cheap, temporary units for emergency situations; this flag could be given to mercenaries as well

7/ Mass Wake-up - the ability to wake-up all fortified/sentried units of one type across your empire

8/ Mass Disband - the ability to disband all units of one type across your empire

9/ Land Transport Units (eg. APCs) - I know they can be added in the editor in Civ 3, but, from what I understand, the A.I. isn't able to use them properly

10/ Close Air Support - an ability for air gunships and fighters; would differ from bombardment in that it would be more powerful, but the air unit would be vulnerable to being 'shot at'


That's all...for now.

[lajzar]

I'd avoid having an in-game unit editor like SMAC. That encourages munchkinism as players try to build the ultimate unit. And with all the special flags, there isn't any logical way to restrict them without making lots of complicated rules that the player will need to understand.

[lajzar]

Originally posted by Xorbon
I have a bunch of unit ideas I might like to see in the new game:

1/ New Class of Unit: Amphibious - this would go along with sea, air, and land units; basically, a unit that could travel on both land and sea; an example would be a hovercraft; not to be confused with the Marine "amphibious" assault ability

I proposed a system whereby each unit would have individually customisable movement costs for every terrain type. So you can either accept the defaults, or set movement flags. Under this model, "land", "sea", and "amphibious" are simply different applications of this movement customising.

Just don't make hovercraft tanks. That propulsion system is not compatible with armoured vehicles.

2/ Retreat Flag - instead of all units with movement >1 having the ability to retreat, there would be a unit flag which could be set on a unit-by-unit basis; so, if you wish, you could have a fast unit that can't retreat, or a foot soldier that can retreat

Agreed.

3/ Helicopter Pick-Up - as others have mentioned, the ability for helicopters to pick foot soldiers up from the battlefield (to complement their ability to drop-off units)

4/ Helicopter Air-Drops from Sea - the ability for helicopters to drop units off from aircraft carriers (others have also mentioned this idea); foot units could board the helicopters from transports

As long as this ability isn't applied to combat helicopters. However, given the number of people a foot unit represents, perhaps it should only be allowed for the more modern foot units.

However, this could be implemented just as effectively by giving the paratroop units the ability to airdrop either into a city *or* out of a city, instead of just out as in civ2. Overall, I don't think transport helicopters are really necessary if you give two-way airdrop capability. Note that this isn't just free teleporting - one end must be a friendly city, and I'd also make it end the unit's move in teh same way that airlift does under civ2 for regular units.

5/ Unit Flag: May Be Bribed - units with this flag 'on' are vulnerable to being bribed to join an opposing civ; flag could be given to mercenary units, for example

yes, and bring back the diplomats and spies while you're at it. Most ancient age units should also have this flag too.

6/ Unit Flag: Limited Lifespan - units with this flag 'on' would last only a certain number of turns (adjustable in the editor) before automatically disbanding; the purpose of this ability would be to have cheap, temporary units for emergency situations; this flag could be given to mercenaries as well

Sounds good. Could also be applied to great leaders.

7/ Mass Wake-up - the ability to wake-up all fortified/sentried units of one type across your empire

8/ Mass Disband - the ability to disband all units of one type across your empire

9/ Land Transport Units (eg. APCs) - I know they can be added in the editor in Civ 3, but, from what I understand, the A.I. isn't able to use them properly

Land transports are almost universally an intrinsic part of the infantry unit they transport. As such, it makes more sense in terms of military realism to build a Mech Infantry unit, rather than an infantry unit and a APC unit. I'd say no to this one.

10/ Close Air Support - an ability for air gunships and fighters; would differ from bombardment in that it would be more powerful, but the air unit would be vulnerable to being 'shot at'

Sounds good to me. This is kind of like an "engage with guns" option vs teh usual "engage with bombs" option, right?

[Xorbon]

My 9th idea is more of a 'nice-to-have' idea. With the current editor, there're all kinds of unit possibilties. However, with many of them, the AI doesn't know what to do with them. APCs are one example. Another is mobile air units (take an air unit and remove its immobile flag). So, it would be 'nice to have' the AI be more flexible in using different types of units that don't necessarily come with the default game. Of course, arty are in the default game, and the AI can't use stacks of them properly.

Idea 10 was an idea I came up with before AA was added (in Conquests). The idea was to make air units more useful by increasing their bombard/attack vs. ground units by using 'close air support'. To balance this, the ground units would be able to defend themselves. Lethal bombing and AA abilities have probably made this 'close air support' idea irrelevant.

[orrery]

for units: american minutemen instead of musketeers
small wonder: the constitution
small wonder: the x-prize cup
new government: federalist
new tech: carpentry