[Map]_TWC_Earth_256_x_128

[Flash]

MoonWolf,

Thanks.

I want to know what everyone thinks. Things here in the StL are starting to return to normal. Should I finish the map as a Vanilla Civ IV, Warlords or try to figure out how to do a 24 Civ Warlord version?

[MoonWolf]

24 Civ Warlord version, no doubt.

As I've understood from your threads, you think you might not have enough RAM to prosess the map? I have one computer with 1,5GB RAM and one with 2GB RAM if you need help with some of the processing...

[Flash]

MoonWolf,
Thank You, But I now have 1.5 GB RAM. I can run the map Okay, but more RAM would probably help a lot. I'm trying to figure out if I can just get by using Rhyes code. If I can, it will help out tremedously. especially since I have a lot of mod plans for this map.

I'll release some more pics in a few days. Today is apartment clean day. LOL

[Will9]

Flash, how do you plan on fitting in the Celts? You could start them in the Celtic homeland (southern Germany), or you could start them Ireland.

Dying to play this map.

[MoonWolf]

I thought the Celts actually came from even further east, north of the Black Sea or somewhere around there?

[padillah]

What editor are you using? I am writting an editor and would love feedback on how to make it more friendly.

It's WorldPainter and the newest version does support rivers (I've got to package it and upload it).

Let me know what you think. And what you use so I can get ideas for making it better.

Tom P.

[Fan2]

Originally posted by MoonWolf
I thought the Celts actually came from even further east, north of the Black Sea or somewhere around there?

As far as their origin, I don't think that's right but there certainly is a wide area of influence. I think either of Will's suggestions are good. Problem with the Celts is depending on what time in history you want to represent you can have tribes from Turkey all the way to Spain and up into Ireland.

[Gatekeeper]

Flash:

Heh. It's probably just me (since Civ IV just came out for the Macintosh a few weeks ago), but I think it'd be easier to start out with the 18-civilization map for vanilla Civ IV, then find a way to go with the 24-civilization Warlords map (it'll probably be another six to eight months before that XP shows up on the Macintosh).

I've been doing some preliminary work on making maps via the WorldBuilder feature. From what I can tell, some of the necessary work has to been done *directly* w/i the WB file containing the code for that particular WB save (i.e. civilization starting coordinates for historically accurate starts, which civilizations you want to use, etc.) while the majority of the work can be done w/i the map itself (i.e. terrain placement, terrain features, special resources, etc.).

The WB file itself is a Unix executable file, and is accessible via TextEdit; the WB file I'm currently "experimenting" with is the Europe WB save that shipped with Civ IV. I notice that it has slots for 18 civilizations, but there are no names or starting points for any of them, which leads me to think civ placement and leader selection is random, a thought backed up by my experience when launching the Europe WB save and finding myself playing Britain not in the British Isles, but northern Europe.

Is any of this akin to your experience, Flash?

Gatekeeper

[padillah]

Um, Gatekeeper, you are causing yourself much more pain than required. If you can run .NET I'd recommend the WorldPainter above. If not there is an generator (not an editor) called Atlas written in Java you can try.

Hope this helps.

Tom P.

[Flash]

Okay guys, lots of questions.

Will9,
On the Celts,...

From the Wiki... "The first literary reference to the Celtic people, as keltoi is by the Greek historian Hecataeus in 517 BC. He locates the Keltoi tribe in Rhenania (West/Southwest Germany). According to Greek mythology, Celtus was the son of Heracles and Keltine, the daughter of Bretannus. Celtus became the primogenitor of Celts [2]. In Latin Celta came in turn from Herodotus' word for the Gauls, Keltoi. The Romans used Celtae to refer to continental Gauls, but apparently not to Insular Celts, which were divided into Goidhels and Britons, and possibly other peoples."

From John Haywood,... "An important group of proto-historic CELTIC-speaking peoples of central and western Europe and the British Isles. Their origins are probly in the Bronze Age Urnfield and Hallstatt cultures. From the 5th century BC they were associated with the distinctive La Tene style, which became widespread in central-western Europe and in Britain.

"The Celts were organized into aristocratic chiefdoms. Tradition described them as fierce fighters and fine horsemen. They invaded the classical world, settled in Cisalpine Gaul, sacked Rome in 390 BC, raided Greece, crossed the Hellespont in 278 BC and settled in Galatia in central Antolia. ... From 225 BC Rome gradually extended control over Celtic territories in Northern Italy, Spain and Provence (by the later 2nd century BC). At the same time the Celts in central Europe were being conquered by the Germans. In 58-52 BC Julius Caesar subdued the Celtic groups in Gaul and from AD 43 those in Britain were also defeated. By the 2nd Century AD only the Celts in Ireland and the Scottish highlands remained free."

[Flash]

On the Celtic Question, I don't know where to place them. France takes up Gaul. We have Spain in Iberia. So I guess in central Europe is the best place.

Padillah,

I went from MapView to the "Civ4 Editor" by kswoll at CFC. If I get a chance I will look at your editor. I also use Paint Shop Pro 7 at the same time.

Gatekeeper,

I've done some experimenting with converting Kurt-Roges earth map to Warlords. I even changed the Mali to Carthage and changed their stating location. I added in Churhill, Ramses and Bismark. I tweaked some terrain. It is very Rome friendly. I messed with a few resources to map my source maps for a test and added in goody huts.

So I can safely start with a vanilla version. convert the file extension to Warlords. Then I think I can use Rhye's mod file to add the full 24 civs.

As far as code goes, I don't know. I do know that If I use Rhye's mod files in messes up the Civ4WarlordsWBsave file making it unreadable in notepad.

If you open the Worldbuilder file in notepad you can specify a lot of things you want in your game. I would imagine though leaving the leader info blank would give you a randomize which specific leader you get with that civ. example, random English leaders.

Okay, thanks guys keep up with the discussion, you ideas are most welcome.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by padillah
Um, Gatekeeper, you are causing yourself much more pain than required. If you can run .NET I'd recommend the WorldPainter above. If not there is an generator (not an editor) called Atlas written in Java you can try.

Hope this helps.

Tom P.

I love anything that might make life easier for this novice modder. Do you have any links to the programs you mentioned above?

Silly question, perhaps, but I assume that if either of those programs have Apple versions, the maps they'd produce would be readable by the Civ IV program?

Gatekeeper

[padillah]

@Gatekeeper:
There's a link in the post three above mine (#21).

Unfortunatly WorldPainter is .NET so you'd have to run it under Moo (I think?). There is a way to run .NET stuff in OS X based on it's *nix background.

I don't know yet if I'm going to port it to Java or not. It's pretty graphics intense and I don't think Java would be fast enough.


@Flash:
I'll remember to post the new version tonight. I'm working on adding teams and general information like that next. It will load and save "Civ4WorldBuilderSave" (vanilla) files but there is no difference in the Worlords WBSaves so I may add the option real quick before I release tonight.

Tom P.

[Gatekeeper]

Padillah:

Hey, thanks! I'll see what I can and cannot do. Heh. Worst-case scenario (no pun intended), I get to learn new things while tackling XML and Python.

I don't think it will be too bad, though, because basically all I want to do is to have a gigantic Earth map with accurate start locations and the option to use "x" number of civilizations. Right now, from what I can tell, if you build or use a "huge" Earth map, you automatically get "x" number of slots for civilizations, which have to *all* be used or you'll get random civs and starting locations for the slots in which you don't enter specific information. Unless, of course, there's a way to "close" a slot.

Ideally, I the Earth map I would build/use has starting points for *all* 18 civilizations, but somewhere, somehow, there would be a Civ II-like option where you could play against, say, just eight of those civilizations. From what I can tell, that doesn't exist right now. Heh. God, how I miss the Civ II Map Editor. Simple and easy to use.

Heh. I'm probably missing something real elementary here when it comes to maps and WorldBuilder. I won't be offended if folks point that out and tell me what I'm missing. After all, novices gotta start somewhere!

Gatekeeper

[padillah]

@Gatekeeper:
Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. As far as I can tell yu can make the civs in a scenario varriable (not preassigned so you can play your favorite) but you can't make the number of civs variable.

I can ask Dale but I think that's the case.

Tom P.