Suggestions for civic setups

[Optimizer]

I have many ideas about changing the Civic option setup to add realism and strategic depth.

This is my preliminary setup:

*** GOVERNMENT

Chiefdom: low upkeep
Hereditary Rule (Monarchy): low upkeep, +100% culture in capital, +2 happiness from Castles
Aristocracy (Code of Laws): low upkeep, +1 happiness in largest cities, +3 science from each specialist
Police State (Fascism): high upkeep, +3 happiness from Barracks and Jail
Universal suffrage (Democracy): high upkeep, +50% commerce, +50% war weariness, unhappiness among neighbors

Trying to tie government types to different sectors of society. Police State should be the most stable form of government. Universal suffrage has been merged with Emancipation and Free Speech.

*** LABOR
Tribal Labor: low upkeep
Slavery (Bronze Working): medium upkeep, can population-rush, 1 free specialist/city
Serfdom (Civil Service): low upkeep, 1 hammer from Farm
Labor Market (Printing Press): low upkeep, +1 hammer from Mine & Workshop, can money-rush
Welfare State (Medicine): high upkeep, food surplus used for unit construction, +100% Great People rate, +3 health
Slavery is suited for growing empires. A privilege society is any one where most career opportunities are limited to a few people. Labor Market (a brutal one, think Victorian England or present-day China) is the best option for young industrial societies. Welfare State includes the great reforms from contraception and preschools, which allowed women to make a living by themselves. Population growth will be slow, so this civic is most preferrable for full-grown empires.

*** ECONOMY
Decentralization: low upkeep
Mercantilism (Banking): low upkeep, no foreign trade routes, +50% commerce from trade routes
Free Trade (Economics): low upkeep, +3 trade routes for each city
State Ownership (Communism): low upkeep, no distance upkeep cost, +50% worker rate, unlimited specialists
Environmentalism (Ecology): high upkeep, +3 health, +happiness from Forest and Jungle
Mercantilism and Free Trade had to be boosted. Now they should be decent alternatives. The commerce bonus from Mercantilism can be explained by taxes and tariffs.

*** RELIGION
Paganism: low upkeep
Organized Religion (Priesthood): medium upkeep, Missionaries available without Monasteries, +25% building production from cities with state religion
Theocracy (Theology): medium upkeep, no non-state religions spread, +50% building production to cities with state religion
Leader Cult (Divine Right): high upkeep, no state religion, no religions spread, +1 happiness from Colosseums, Theatres, Broadcast Towers, -50% war weariness
Free religion (Liberalism): no upkeep, no state religion, +1 happiness for each religion in city, +20% science
The Leader Cult is an interesting alternative for a warmonger.

But hey, didn't I forget the Legal options? Well, since the Legal options seemed inconsistent to me, I have changed them to Military ones.

*** MILITARY
Militia: Low upkeep
Warrior Class (Code of Laws): low upkeep, +1 happiness from each unit
Nomadism (Horseback Riding): low upkeep, 20 free units, -1 food from Farm, building units with food
Conscription (Nationalism): high upkeep, draft 3 units/turn, +20% unit production
Professional Army (Military Tradition): no upkeep, +4 experience points/unit, +1 unit upkeep cost

Nomadism is preferrable for players who want a quick conquest without an infrastructural base - it will however not last for long. Conscription is a must-have in threat of global warfare. Professional Armies are preferrable to the peaceful player. The commerce bonus is because the population in general does not need to bother about contributing to the defense.

Note: I am changing this setup continuously.

[GeoModder]

/me misses his Environmentalism in this setup.

[rjwoer]

One thing I want to do but haven't yet figured out, is how to make the civic SLAVERY increase PLANTATION production by 50%, or something along those lines. It seems to me (considering history) that plantations should be more valuable in some way under the slavery civic. Or that resources from plantations should be more valuable (which is basically the same thing just stated differently).

[Optimizer]

I also think about better implementations of slavery.

Slavery was "invented" by the ruling classes in ancient societies, because land was abundant and labor was a critical resource. As population increased in western Europe and eastern Asia, there was no more need for slavery. Instead, land ownership became the major power source. When the Americas were colonized, labor was critical again, so slaves were imported from Africa, where slavery was still practised (due to low population density).

What does this say about slavery as a civic? Well, slavery should favour players with low population and plenty of unimproved land. But how can we do that? Suggestions, please!

[rjwoer]

well put, Optimizer. I think clearly there is a need for some additional benefits to Slavery (at least for early civs, or those with the kind of agricultural economy for which slavery proves so "useful.")

If no one else comes up with something I will proabably post my own revision in the near future . . . once I figure out the techniques for adjusting civics properly. The civic xml file doesn't seem to have much room for expansion and I haven't yet dug into Python.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Possible slavery advantages (may or maynot be implementable)

A free "slave" in each City, slaves work a tile like a normal worker but do not count towards the cities population. Esentialy a free unit of population in your cities greatly boosting your resorce income when your city is small and undeveloped.

[Blake]

Mercantilism (Banking): no foreign trade routes, +50% commerce from trade routes
Free Trade (Liberalism): +3 trade routes for each city
State Ownership (Communism): no distance upkeep cost, +50% worker rate, unlimited specialists
Environmentalism (Ecology): +3 health, +happiness from Forest and Jungle

Mercantilism and Free Trade had to be boosted. Now they should be decent alternatives.

Holy crap! You have NO CLUE of the power of trade!

Freemarket as you make it is SO MUCH BETTER than any other economic, holy crap, that's like +30 commerce in your best trade city!!!!!

I dunno what Merchanitilism did to deserve such a nerf, it was borderline underpowered as is. Now it's detrimental except to those with NO trading partners at all!!!

Also Leader Cult is holywowza strong.

[Optimizer]

Well, I know that Mercantilism was a bad idea in the real world, but it needed some advantage for game balance.

I will lower the happiness bonus for Leader Cult a bit.

[Optimizer]

Some icon ideas for the new civics:
Oligarchy - man with top hat, monocle and cigar
Stratification - pyramid
Labor Market - time clock
Social Equality - male and female symbols
Leader Cult - bronze statue
Militia - bearded man with shovel
Warrior Class - decorated knight helmet
Nomadism - tent on grassland
Conscription - Uncle Sam
Professional army - officer's rank signs

[Optimizer]

Some interesting combos:

Optimal civics for civilizations with many cities and little infrastructure:
Aristocracy, Slavery, State Ownership, Free Religion, Nomadism (compare Mongol Empire)

Optimal war civics:
Police State, Labor Market, Free Trade, Leader Cult, Conscription (compare Nazi Germany)

Otimal production civics:
Aristocracy, Labor Market, Free Trade, Organized Religion, Professional Army (compare 18th century United Kingdom)

Optimal research civics:
Universal Suffrage, Welfare State, Ecology, Free Religion, Professional Army (compare EU)

[Optimizer]

The extra specialist bonus for Slavery works just fine.

Seems like all civics are useful right now.

[Mace]

Good ideas all around!

Slavery -- I agree with your explanation re: Slavery, and its usefulness to low-pop societies, etc. I too think something more could be done with it, such as a free specialist per city or something...it would have to be balanced right, and made so that late game it was VERY undesirable to have the slavery civic (such as it is with Emancipation civic). You don't have Emancipation...how would slavery then be made undesirable in the late game?

-- Mercantilism. Merc was useful and valuable to some bullion-based economies in the 1500's and 1600's, but IMO as societies evolved, people started demanding more and more varied goods, and the mercantilist system could not adequately supply those goods (see Britain in the 1700's, when foreign tea, foreign coonskin caps, foreign tobacco, etc. began to be demanded by people). Furthermore, as the middle class emerged, that also increased demand for (foreign) trade goods and led to the demise of a purely Mercantile economy. Is this a fair analysis? Or am I all wrong? I too am thinking about civics options...

[Optimizer]

Large-scale slavery/forced labor has occasionally been used in industrial societies, such as Nazi Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union. Pre-civil war southern US were not really industrial.

[Optimizer]

Right now the Nomadism civic is not properly used by the AI. Maybe it should be changed to a self-defense force - with heavy war weariness and a good commercial bonus.

[Optimizer]

I keep on suggesting new civics att CivFanatics:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137032&page=4