Actual Trade Routes

[LzPrst]

I dont know if this is possible to mod (probably not, but I'll suggest it anyway)

heres a few things that would make the game IMO a wee bit more interesting.

1. trade routes shouldnt trace themselves.
2. there should be length limits for trade routes depending on technology.

let me elaborate.

by trade routes I mean, the trade routes that a city now gets automatically from having open borders.
AND trade involving resources.

the latter would have to be dependent on having trade routes with the exporting\importing empire.

when making trade routes, you actually have to set a certain path (similar to CtP) from city to city. and you would designate this path yourself.

the length of the route should be limited according to technology. also, a trade route would need to stop at cities along the way in order to resupply and similar.

this would then grant the cities along the route a bonus (say +1 gold).

in addition there should be a unit that could create trade routes over vast empty territories (caravan unit anyone?)

the amount of resources you would be allowed to export\import would be limited to a "naval\transport capacity variable" that would depend on your number of ships, caravans and ports.

whaddayathink?

(edited for spelling and clarity)

[Stone-D]

I agree wholeheartedly on the range limitation and the manual pathing, but limiting the quantities of exchanged resources might add too much complexity for very little gain... or are you meaning TOTAL resources exchanged, versus quantity of a particular resource?

Also, how about a time factor too? Trade with camels meant income arrived in monthly packets of 'lots', while fast coastal trading resulted in rapid packets of 'much less'.

Have a formula based on transport tech/type and transport expenditures.

LAND/SEA/AIR variables represent time and cost. The higher the worse.

Eg.,

MEDIUM_LAND_FOOT = 30
MEDIUM_LAND_PACK_ANIMAL = 24
MEDIUM_SEA_OCEAN = 16
MEDIUM_SEA_COASTAL = 10
MEDIUM_AIR = 6


Income is calculated from trade-value(decided upon when you create the route in the first place) times the average DpM (Days per Month). Trading corn for gems would net a high trade-value.

base DpM, 28.

So an algo could be :

Corn(worth 1) for Gems(worth 10) = 10-1 = 9 (the difference, min 1) :

(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_FOOT = (28 * 9) / 30 = 8.4
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_PACK = (28 * 9) / 24 = 10.5
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_OCEAN = (28 * 9) / 16 = 15.75
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_COASTAL = (28 * 9) / 10 = 25.2
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_AIR = (28 * 9) / 6 = 42

Corn(worth 1) for Bananas(worth 2) = 2-1 = 1 (the difference, min 1) :

(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_FOOT = (28 * 1) / 30 = 0.93
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_PACK = (28 * 1) / 24 = 1.16
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_OCEAN = (28 * 1) / 16 = 1.75
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_COASTAL = (28 * 1) / 10 = 2.8
(DpM * Trade_Value) / MEDIUM_AIR = (28 * 1) / 6 = 4.66


Doing this might add an element of economics to the game, and might be doable via modding. With adjustments to Banking, you might have a World Bank tech which allows you to loan money to empires... see where I'm going?

[Quin007]

range limitation is OK. Manual pathing and transport capacity checking brings way too much micromanagement.

[Maniac]

Strange that AFAIK no one has tried to mod in actual trade routes running over the map, with as addendum piracy. I thought this was rather popular?

[Ijuin]

As for a range limit, how about 15% of the map's longest dimension per age (as the crow flies)? That would mean that come the Modern Age you could trade with antipodal cities, but you would be limited mainly to your own continent before the Industrial Age.

[Maniac]

Wouldn't something dynamic be nicer, eg you can trade further by sea than by land, influenced by your naval techs etc?

[Ijuin]

It would require more complex pathfinding, but it might work. How about your range is limited to how far a unit can travel in ten turns from the city (plus two turns per each age)?

For example, in the Classical Age (second age), you could trade with any city that could be reached in twelve turns. Since 2 is the movement factor of mounted units, you could trade up to 24 tiles away without roads, or 48 tiles away with full roads. In the Renaissance Age, where you have Engineering, you could trade 32 tiles away without roads, and 96 with roads (i.e. nearly anywhere on your continent).

For sea, a trieme moves at 2, so you could trade 24 tiles away during the Classical Age. Caravals move at 3, so you could trade 42 tiles away during the Medieval Age. Galleons move at 4, so you could trade up to 64 tiles away during the Renaissance Age. Transports move at 6, so you could trade 106 tiles away during the Industrial Age, and finally when you get Radio (representing telecommunications) you can trade with anybody anywhere.

[LzPrst]

well, just to add a few historical bits. in the ancient era, or rather classical, with romans and greeks and such, just about all trade occurred on the mediterranean. that is in other words, by sea. there were of course land routes as well, like the silk road and cross-desert caravans through africa, the syrian desert and even from central europe to the mediterranean (not desert, I know ).

but the largest bulk by far was trade by ship. the same remained true up until the time of railroads and still today I think most of trade goods is moved by ship. there should be some way of linking shipping capacity\shipping technology to the distance you can trade.

I have thought of some things that might influence this.

1. add a maintenance cost for roads 1 gold for every 10 squares with a road could be one way of doing it. in fact in RL roads are costly to maintain, in old times and modern. of course the AI would kill itself with this .

2. give sea routes far greater range AND profit than land routes starting already with galleys. travelling with ship is easier, faster and had greater capacity than travelling by road. Stone-D's suggestion is perfect for this. I'm not a modder myself unfortunately, I lack the know-how, but I have the ideas

only question is, do we give all resources in the game a value? also, wouldnt it be easier with 30 Dpm?

and finally, since civ does play around a lot with time, wouldnt monthly income be a little excessive? yearly is probably just as well, or "turn-ly". cant get too much money too fast...

dammit, firaxis should hire me for civ5, civ needs more economics, study history and it will show you that money moves the world and wealth rules it