[Mod] Rebellion (Civil War) Mod

[dearmad]

Hm. In looking over the math involved wid fguring the odds of a rebel appearence- they are going to be WAY too common. In fact in two games testings rebvels popped up in the first 5 turns in one of the 7 civs on the map. Beginning with about a 1.5% chance to pop up in EACH city is way too high.

No problems, just lwoered ALL the factors to about 25% of their initial weight except for happiness/healthiness as those are controllable to some degree by the player in a way that makes sense to me.

I also dropped the foriegners one from 1000 (or whatever) to 100- this one would make constant pop-ups given how cities on borders get 50/50 populations frequently enough. Even with the 6 turn delay.

I think the factors for rebels need a threshold, below which you don't get them no matter what. Then they should factor up from there, in such a way that when you get them you get LOTS of them if you've let some situation stand for along time to get significantly bad. IOW: if you had a 20% chance this turn of rebels you get 5 rebels all at once. If you had only a 1% chance then only 1 rebel shows up. Something scaled like that.

Oh, the threshold would be something like deducting -300 from the final calculated score so that you need to push above that through a combination of factors (or jsut a few really bad ones) before there's a chance of rebels. I added this with a simple: if <300 then chance =0 at the end before calculating the score.

This is with keeping the 6 turn (or whatever) enforced hiatus intact too.

I don't know- the more I look at this mod the tougher I see the real underlying concern is... glad someone else is handling it and I can just kibitz.

[GraveEatr]

Civil wars add great depth to the game. It was one of my main strategies back in Civ2 when warring with a larger civ. Just take their capital, (hopefully) a civil war starts and the large empire is split in two, with me aligning with the "rebels".

I don't know squat about python, so I have this question...

Is it possible to have another Civ become the "rebels" in a civil war?

Example #1:

The Romans have a large civilization. The Germans capture the Rome (capital) and the Romans go into civil war. The Roman empire splits into two... the Romans and the Greeks (rebels).

Example #2:

The Romans have a city built on another continent, and the citizens are unhappy. They revolt against the Romans and the city becomes the capital city of it's own Civ (French, for example).

Also... if the above examples can be done: The rebel Civ should share the same ultural background as the Civ it's rebelling against.

Example: Romans go into civil war, and the Greeks join the game as a rebel faction. Or the Romans go into civil war, and the French are the rebel faction.

It wouldn't seem right to have the Romans enter a civil war with the Azteks as the rebel Civ.

[dearmad]

Wondering if the units spawned will be scaled up from warriors as technology advances. Seems like facig warriors when you have moder techs isn't going to be a challenge.

[Jerh9e1k5]

Originally posted by dearmad
Wondering if the units spawned will be scaled up from warriors as technology advances. Seems like facig warriors when you have moder techs isn't going to be a challenge.

I would certainly hope so, I would like to see the "new" civilization remain competitive.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Howdy Trip. As you may know, a bunch of us Aussies were thinking of working together to create a Civil War mod in which cities break away to form a new nation-though I know I won't be ready to play around with that until I have had a couple of months to play this BRILLIANT GAME!!!! Anyway, sorry if I am repeating what other people have said, but the various factors we were planning on having for civil war were:

1) Ratio of Happy to Unhappy faces.
2) % Ethnic culture.
3) Distance from the Capital.
4) Changing religion or Civics choices-particularly if the latter is different from your Leaders preferred civic.
5) Gaining too many techs in a given amount of time (fear of change).
6) Diplomatic Changes (War to Peace and vice versa; opening of borders etc).
7) Ratio of a cities culture to the national average and/or the average of any neighbouring civs.
8) Cities with a religion different from the State Religion under Organised Religion and Theocracy-more so if the State religion is also in that city.

Oh, btw Trip, Barbarians are truly brilliant in Civ4, but will it be possible to mod them so that they can build up culture and technology-albiet at a slower rate than 'non-barbarian' civs-and rename captured cities? Its just that this will make civil wars and rebellions even MORE interesting IMO! Anyway, great to see you working on a Mod which is going to make the game even MORE dynamic and exciting than it already is

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Khoram]

I agree with the poster above me, I like the idea of chance of rebellion/civil war whenever civics are changed, not just when you are running "bad" civics.

In other words, rebellion while running the slavery civic might be caused by abolitionists. Rebellion when switching away from slavery might be caused by the pro-slavery slave-holders.

[jordie]

Aussie Lurker: Hey, I'm another Aussie interested in this too! In regards to:
3) Distance from the Capital.
You could extend by, if the bunch of cities are on a different continent to the capital etc.

Another idea I had would be if you could named the rebel civ something similar, so you were Rome, (i dono fi the game can do this) it could detect if the rebel capital was north or south of Rome and the new civ would be "South Rome" or maybe something ike "The People's Rome" or something depending on the reason why they split. Like if it was due to slavery, it could become "The Free Peoples Of Rome". Also, whats cool about civ is there are multiple leaders.... What if the rebel civ got the other leader that you are not? That would be very cool.

[MattPilot]

*bump* ?

[fezick31]

A bunch of us have been discussing a civil war model for quite awhile in the Civ 4 general forum:

Civil Wars & Partisans Thread

Our discussion is fairly high level at this point, but we've hashed out a lot of details about what what would be more accuratly described as dynamic civilizations, with Empire splits, re-emergent civiliations, and models for what leads up to civil war. Might save you some time in building a mod where you actually have cities declaring independence.

Fezick

[MoonWolf]

I don't think splitting a civ into two fractions cause of the capital being captured is a good idea. Instead, a spilt can be risked if your citizens in the capital is unhappy. Like one part of the civ support the current government and the other supporting the "new thinkers" who are unhappy.

[Spiffor]

Trip:

Thanks for the mod . Sounds very interesting

I've had an idea that could integrate the concept of civil war with the concept of new nations. In your mod, you take into account the nationality of existing civs, or of civs that have existed in the past.

However, civil wars are also about creating new civs (Americans vs the English comes to mind, but also Carthage vs Phoenicia and so on). To integrate the concept of "new nationality", here's my suggestion:
The city produces some "independant" culture in proportion with the city upkeep. For example, if a city is far from the capitol and must pay 5 gold per turn because of that, it also generate 5 points of "independant" culture. If the player does nothing to prevent the rise of this "independant" nationality, it is exposed to a rebellion as usual.

[The keeper]

Taking an idea from another game,

Instead of having the city automatically flip, have barb units spawn.

If the city passes the check to revolt, it will then create units. Then, you can continue to keep the number high. The number of units created would depend on how likely the city was to revolt. The units would be the same as your strongest unit.

You would then have to rush units to the area of the revolt to quell the rebellion.

Just an idea to throw out there.

[Optimizer]

To reduce randomness, there should be a "rebellion points" counter for each empire.

Unhappiness, number of cities, non-state religions and oppressive civics (Slavery, Police State, Nationhood etc) would be the largest sources of Rebellion Points.

When the Rebellion Score counter passes a certain limit (100, 200 etc), a rebellion will occur. This will be illustrated by a number of barbarian spawning. Some can have the same abilities as spies, while other can be weak combat units with useful promotions like Guerrilla, Woodsman and City Raiding. If they manage to capture a city, a new civilization is born.

There would also be a risk for the civilization's units to rebel (to change owner or be disbanded).

Another nice addition would be the possibility for spies to raise an enemy's Rebellion Score.

[Jack Frost]

couple thoughts here:

In order to model civil war in an even mildly interesting way - you need to have more detailed information on your population.

Ethnicity is of key importance - but the civ model is sorta limited here. Ethnically diverse towns only really exist on the borders (unless you go and conquer).

Most civil wars didn't have to do with etnicity - it had to do with ideals. Which means mapping population to civics. Certain portions of your population like certain civics. Other interesting effects would be that your neighbors choice of civics have an impact in your own populations civics.

So - you use slavery. None of your neighbors do - your population will slowly demand you not use slavery. Eventually they'll revolt. Something like that.

Probably the best way to measure influence is by how friendly your relations with other nations are. So your friend nations have heavy influence on your civics, whereas nations you are at war with have much less.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Howdy Trip. As you may know, a bunch of us Aussies were thinking of working together to create a Civil War mod in which cities break away to form a new nation-though I know I won't be ready to play around with that until I have had a couple of months to play this BRILLIANT GAME!!!! Anyway, sorry if I am repeating what other people have said, but the various factors we were planning on having for civil war were:

1) Ratio of Happy to Unhappy faces.
2) % Ethnic culture.
3) Distance from the Capital.
4) Changing religion or Civics choices-particularly if the latter is different from your Leaders preferred civic.
5) Gaining too many techs in a given amount of time (fear of change).
6) Diplomatic Changes (War to Peace and vice versa; opening of borders etc).
7) Ratio of a cities culture to the national average and/or the average of any neighbouring civs.
8) Cities with a religion different from the State Religion under Organised Religion and Theocracy-more so if the State religion is also in that city.

Oh, btw Trip, Barbarians are truly brilliant in Civ4, but will it be possible to mod them so that they can build up culture and technology-albiet at a slower rate than 'non-barbarian' civs-and rename captured cities? Its just that this will make civil wars and rebellions even MORE interesting IMO! Anyway, great to see you working on a Mod which is going to make the game even MORE dynamic and exciting than it already is

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I saw a barbarian city with a culture of something in the low 100s - enough to expand it's boundaries to the 'fat cross' - it was one on a terra map where I didn't get to the new world until the 18th century. I heard another player say they saw a barbarian city with the colossus, but I wonder if that's one the barbs took over from a 'real' civ.