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  • Seasons

    Once I thought about implementing seasons into Civ2, but the macro language was too limited (no generalized statements like SELECT in SQL). It was outright impossible in Civ3.

    It should be possible in Civ4, if the modding capabilities were really so good they are telling us all the time

    We would need 4 sets of landscape types for that.

    It would give a huge variety of possibilities.

    1) TERRAIN. In norhern countries, water bodies will be covered with ice, enabling traffic for land units and disabling Navy. It would not be wise to start large campains in Autumn or Spring because the roads would not give movement bonus until some Modern Era advances.

    2) RESOURCES. In Winter, the Nothern lands would be clad with snow that hardly produces anything (only shields from forests) and some fish from water. In Spring everything will start to blossom, but the production could be even worse. In Summer, the food production goes up and in Autumn there would be a real feast. Workers have to cultivate their land all over every Spring to get the crop in Autumn. In Winter and Spring the city has to eat only its stored food.

    3) SPECIAL RESOURCES. There might be some special things available only for snow-having nations (Winter Games wonder etc) and some for sun-and-banana-nations (honestly, I do not know what).

    3) RELIGIONS. Historically all great religions were developed in the South, so it is possible to leave founding of religions for Southerners. Maybe we should have Protestantism for Christian Northerners by the end of Middle Ages. North may get other advantages, like espescially fierce military units in Antique and Middle Ages.

    4) TACTICS. Some units are swift and strong in Winter (Alpine Troops), some in other seasons (Infantry, remember the winter of 1941).

    5) DIF. STRATEGIES FOR DIF. STARTING LOCATIONS. In the South, there would be 2 crops per year. In the north, the snow landscape might enable production of tough people (Viking Berserks and others). The strategies of Southerners and Northerners will differ as they do in the real world.
    Last edited by Kristjan; October 20, 2005, 11:58.

  • #2
    Sounds interesting.

    Changing the appearance of the 'tiles' as the seasons change certainly appears to be possible. If nothing else, it could be done as a set of 'improvements'.

    But most of your gameplay objectives are built around the idea that you can change the rules governing the various terrain/improvement bonuses and penalties, on the fly. Has anyone seen anything to indicate that this is possible?

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    • #3
      It was possible to change terrain type on the fly even in civ2 (remember slash & burn scenario). Snow is just one type of terrain, a field with ripe crop is another type of terrain.

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      • #4
        Sounds like an interesting idea. I imagine it could be tough to balance the benefits of all the different landscapes though, or somehow make it so players don't start out north of the polar circle.
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        • #5
          Seasons were implemented in CIV2.

          Re: Red Front Scenario
          *"Winning is still the goal, and we cannot win if we lose (gawd, that was brilliant - you can quote me on that if you want. And con - I don't want to see that in your sig."- Beta

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          • #6
            But they were not inetgarted intio some playable scenario


            sorry, i am quite drunk now.....

            lets discusss it in previous posts.

            please excuse me.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kristjan
              But they were not inetgarted intio some playable scenario


              sorry, i am quite drunk now.....

              lets discusss it in previous posts.

              please excuse me.
              yes they were actually, you had to run a "batch file" I think thats what it was called to change the seasons at the correct time but it did work.
              *"Winning is still the goal, and we cannot win if we lose (gawd, that was brilliant - you can quote me on that if you want. And con - I don't want to see that in your sig."- Beta

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              • #8
                Originally posted by vovan
                I imagine it could be tough to balance the benefits of all the different landscapes though, or somehow make it so players don't start out north of the polar circle.
                Even if starting in North were a disadvantage, it would be realistic. Experienced players often deliberately put themselves into hard starting positions in single-game mode.

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                • #9
                  We know tiles can be changed in Civ4 because previews have stated "global warming" caused by nukes changes grassy squares into desert. No doubt, there's a global warming python script performing this action.

                  While changing one square a turn is obviously feasible, changing every square may require noticable computation time. Plus, who knows what sort of confusing such a massive switch would cause the AI.

                  (as an aside: Tile switching can be used for a whole bunch of interesting FXs aside from Seasons and Global warming. An Ice Age mod with advancing and regressing ice sheets for example. Or a fantasy mod with gross changes to the world map based on preset events--such as dumping Californa into the sea in the year 2010.)

                  It may be possible to actually switch the textures and properties of tiles midgame via scripting. So a grassy tile would remain a grassy tile, but would select appearance and behavior based on turn number.

                  At very least, we know certain tile outputs are effected by technology and improvements....could use the same mechanism for seasons. If scripts can't be attached to the tiles themselves, you might have an invisible "Season" technology that modifies tile output based on turn number or a Season variable.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by drekmonger (as an aside: Tile switching can be used for a whole bunch of interesting FXs aside from Seasons and Global warming. An Ice Age mod with advancing and regressing ice sheets for example. Or a fantasy mod with gross changes to the world map based on preset events--such as dumping Californa into the sea in the year 2010.)
                    Yes, long-time climatic changes are utterly left out from all versions of Civ (Little Ice Age, growth of Sahara etc). Maybe we could do something about that as well, but I doubt it. These changed should be independent of player activity and the future history of world climate should be generated ain the very beginning of game to avoid every kind of abuse.

                    It may be possible to actually switch the textures and properties of tiles midgame via scripting. So a grassy tile would remain a grassy tile, but would select appearance and behavior based on turn number.
                    You may me right, it might be a cheaper way to do it.

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                    • #11
                      maybe in a short term scenario, other games no

                      the time frame of each turn would need to be changed

                      and the effect of movement/growth in the earlier era's would be effected
                      anti steam and proud of it

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                      • #12
                        Maybe we could do something about that as well, but I doubt it.
                        I'm fairly certain it'll be possible, just based on the way global warming works. Say, 86.5476% certain.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Platypus Rex
                          maybe in a short term scenario, other games no

                          the time frame of each turn would need to be changed
                          Yes, we need 1 turn/month ratio for this. I agree that for 6000 years of human history, it would grow somewhat out of hands

                          But implementing seasons would be great for Middle Ages scenario for instance.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kristjan


                            Yes, long-time climatic changes are utterly left out from all versions of Civ (Little Ice Age, growth of Sahara etc). Maybe we could do something about that as well, but I doubt it. These changed should be independent of player activity and the future history of world climate should be generated ain the very beginning of game to avoid every kind of abuse.
                            This would be fun for an Earth map. There has been a general cooling trend since about 9000 BC, the warmest period of the current interglacial (though it won't be for long ). and the desertifications it caused in North Africa, the Middle East (is this where the garden of Eden myth came from? ) and Central Asia were very inportant events in human history.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Odin
                              is this where the garden of Eden myth came from?
                              Some guy suggested the myth is a distant reflection of the ever-happy life of pre-human species in jungles before some of them were cast out and had to live in savannahs...

                              Originally posted by Odin ...were very important events in human history.
                              Yes, they most certainly were.

                              Somewhat off-topic is the question of coastline changes. In Civ3, it was possible to happen after global warmings but lands were sunk long before industrial age... Beginning with the myth of Atlantis.

                              These two issues have one common point - map has to be ever-changing during gameplay and these changes should have "natural" causes besides player acitivity.

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