AoD2: 1.07 Changelog & discussion

[Dale]

Playing AoD 1.07 i encountered 2 more things:

1) wasnt it planned that you can make a "Military University" to train Veterans?

2) Playing a Marathon game gives me the "Game Ends in 20 Turn" at turn 280.
Is that normal or bugged? i am currently so frustrated that i didnt really try it what happends on turn 300 just wondering...

regards

1. I'm not going to be doing that now. But I'm still considering opening up veterans to uni education.

2. Hmmm..... I haven't seen any bugs like that, and no one else has reported one. You sure an AI didn't hold an early DoI?

[immanuel_b]

Ok i have used Ozzys America Scenario now and edited the stuff a bit for faster gameplay.
Basically i used the Editor to add Ressources and cheat it up to see what happends.
On turn 301 the English King wins by European Victory.
So no DoI of either player happened and i checked it often enough that it wont happen.

Some more things i encountered while playing this game.

1) if you have the 2 Founding Fathers which decrease the Unit costs in Europe its CHEAPER to buy them in Europe for lvl 2 and lvl 3 than use the University or College. Even for the lvl 1 Stuff the costs are way too high. For using University to train a Fisherman i safe 278 gold but need to wait a few turns and have the thing built. Whatever happened here the ammount to train in the NW are way too high compared to ship the units in.

2) in this game i ended up having everything which i can sell to Europe at 1 gold per. kinda annoying and really makes me weonder why one should even bother to make the Cloth or alike and not just sell the Raws. its the same gain at end. Maybe put the minimum price for Manufactured stuff somewhere?

3) i had several Cities which i would want to set their production to idle or something like that. Maybe its Porrible to add a "Custom House" or "Bank" stuff building which than gives an option to turn Production into gold maybe? could be something like 1 Hammer for 1 Gold or so.

4) i am still missing a building for Trade Goods Production. i think this could be done with the Idle Production stuff. Maybe 3 Hammer = 1 Trade Good?

5) While i really like the Auto Education Feature it still puts the University and such stuff as well as the Natives to no use anymore. Especially with the extremely High Gold costs of University and the Training time rise on Natives. I ended up just shipping FC in build a city and wait my 20 Turns for them to be Specialists. Some Balancing should be done with the now 4 Ways of gaining Specialists as of now 2 of the 4 are of no use anymore imo.

6) Especially in Marathon Games and with the new Features i end up having an Industrial Victory before i even think of going for DoI. Thats why i used Ozzys Map where the Industrial Victory isnt present however maybe there could be a Feature where you can select at game start at the Screen where you select the Speed and stuff which Victory Conditions you want?

7) The REF is still a tad too high imo for Marathon game and a play style with alots of Towns. at the turn 301 of this game the King had 250ish Infantry 150ish Regular alot of Cannons and 60ish MoW. Maybe its the Ozyy Map which is bugged?

hope that this helps...

regards

[PrinceMyshkin]

Nice ones!

1) if you have the 2 Founding Fathers which decrease the Unit costs in Europe its CHEAPER to buy them in Europe for lvl 2 and lvl 3 than use the University or College. Even for the lvl 1 Stuff the costs are way too high. For using University to train a Fisherman i safe 278 gold but need to wait a few turns and have the thing built. Whatever happened here the ammount to train in the NW are way too high compared to ship the units in.

Providing you get these FFs... I think it's fairly balanced.

2) in this game i ended up having everything which i can sell to Europe at 1 gold per. kinda annoying and really makes me weonder why one should even bother to make the Cloth or alike and not just sell the Raws. its the same gain at end. Maybe put the minimum price for Manufactured stuff somewhere?

Excellent idea. Selling silver for 1 is good fun. (^^,) Just joking.

3) i had several Cities which i would want to set their production to idle or something like that. Maybe its Porrible to add a "Custom House" or "Bank" stuff building which than gives an option to turn Production into gold maybe? could be something like 1 Hammer for 1 Gold or so.

Excellent idea.

4) i am still missing a building for Trade Goods Production. i think this could be done with the Idle Production stuff. Maybe 3 Hammer = 1 Trade Good?

Interesting idea, but you could only buy trade goods from Europe in vanilla 1994.

5) While i really like the Auto Education Feature it still puts the University and such stuff as well as the Natives to no use anymore. Especially with the extremely High Gold costs of University and the Training time rise on Natives. I ended up just shipping FC in build a city and wait my 20 Turns for them to be Specialists. Some Balancing should be done with the now 4 Ways of gaining Specialists as of now 2 of the 4 are of no use anymore imo.

Natives are uber in the beginning.

Europe... just buy FCs as you said! But Europe is meant to be expensive.

Unis supposed to be the best, but hard to get there.

Which is the 4th way? Do you mean the FFs?

6) Especially in Marathon Games and with the new Features i end up having an Industrial Victory before i even think of going for DoI. Thats why i used Ozzys Map where the Industrial Victory isnt present however maybe there could be a Feature where you can select at game start at the Screen where you select the Speed and stuff which Victory Conditions you want?

I fully agree. I always turn off economic and industrial victories. There was a lot of complaining about alternative means of victory, so Dale implemented them. I think they are easy enough to satisfy the n00bs, and probably it was meant to be like that...

7) The REF is still a tad too high imo for Marathon game and a play style with alots of Towns. at the turn 301 of this game the King had 250ish Infantry 150ish Regular alot of Cannons and 60ish MoW. Maybe its the Ozyy Map which is bugged?

This is not high my friend. Sounds like an easy fight. Large empires had to take 900 inf, 900 dragoon, 900 cannons and 300 MoWs before...

In my opinion, it is already fairly easy now.

[immanuel_b]

Nice ones!



Providing you get these FFs... I think it's fairly balanced.



Excellent idea. Selling silver for 1 is good fun. (^^,) Just joking.



Excellent idea.



Interesting idea, but you could only buy trade goods from Europe in vanilla 1994.

Only cause you couldnt do that in Vanilla aint really a point why you shouldnt be able to do now.
The list of Differences between Vanilla and AoD II is very long...

Natives are uber in the beginning.

Europe... just buy FCs as you said! But Europe is meant to be expensive.

Unis supposed to be the best, but hard to get there.

Which is the 4th way? Do you mean the FFs?

Ok, you misunderstood it here.
4 ways:
Natives; Europe; University; auto-Edu

Problem right now is that Europe is NOT expensive compared to University.
University = FC + Training Cost = Way higher than buying in Europe
with the 2 FF even generally higher even when you have the FC built in the NW

I fully agree. I always turn off economic and industrial victories. There was a lot of complaining about alternative means of victory, so Dale implemented them. I think they are easy enough to satisfy the n00bs, and probably it was meant to be like that...

Point is you can not really turn it off especially not in the Scenarios and i think there should be a way to turn it off for the Scenarios as well.
I love to play Scenarios and i rarely play random Maps

This is not high my friend. Sounds like an easy fight. Large empires had to take 900 inf, 900 dragoon, 900 cannons and 300 MoWs before...

In my opinion, it is already fairly easy now.

Ähm mind me...
it IS high for a 300 Turn Marathon Game.
this wasnt normal Speed and it ended after 300 turn. So when you gradually do the Math and include the acceleration for the 900 Turns in REF Force you come to a way higher number than you said here since as longer the game goes on the more bells the more REF and faster REF...

[PrinceMyshkin]

Trade goods suck in Col. II. There is nothing wrong with trade goods being available only in Europe. These two are different issues. I wish they had the balance of Col. 1994.

Alternatively they could even be replaced with a new type of weapon eg. rifle, which would be stronger than musket, and become available later on…

Point is you can not really turn it off especially not in the Scenarios and i think there should be a way to turn it off for the Scenarios as well.
I love to play Scenarios and i rarely play random Maps

You can play a customized game, which is exactly like a scenario, but you can set your victory conditions. I love the maps too.

Ähm mind me...
it IS high for a 300 Turn Marathon Game.
this wasnt normal Speed and it ended after 300 turn. So when you gradually do the Math and include the acceleration for the 900 Turns in REF Force you come to a way higher number than you said here since as longer the game goes on the more bells the more REF and faster REF...

The REF which you described is not a problem, nor I consider it high. If Marathon ends in 300 turns is a BIG problem.

In Col. II 2008 vanilla turns have been: 300/450/600
In AoD II: 450/600/900

The more you move into the endgame the faster your grow comparing to REF. You should be able to cover the difference after turn 600, and end up with a force twice as large as REF.

Marathon game is easier than epic and epic is easier than standard. Although it sounds like a paradox, it is true. The main reasons are:
- You can build more colonies in longer games. Feel free to try it out yourself.
- You can take on all other colonial forces without losing any FF.

Hence, the difference which you describe after turn 300 will easily be covered later – just compare the difference in REF after turn 150 for standard, and turn 200 for epic speed. The analogy is about the same divided by a factor of 2 for standard and 1.5 for epic speed.

Hence, the real problem is why does the game end after turn 300? Are you sure none of your opponents declared DoI, or hit any industrialization or economic victory?

I suggest you start a customized game turning off eco. and ind. VCs.

[immanuel_b]

Again....
If you read my post you should be able to see what happends.
English King wins by European Victory on turn 301.
Hence Turns ran out and the King won.
No DoI of any Cols or whatever other Victory Conditions there are happened simply the turn time is bugged.
I think it is within Ozzys America Map where the whole stuff is seriously bugged.
Didnt happen on a Custom Game where i am currently in Turn 400ish.
And i never said there must be Trade Godds i just suggested something to get some kind of Idle Production but your Reply as Argument "wasnt present in vanilla" hardly sound like a real argument for me considering the dozens of Changes made between AodII and Vanilla...

regards

[PrinceMyshkin]

Dude, chill out a bit, this forum is very friendly. Let's try keep it like this.

When someone presents opinions, I always offer my feedback and I sincerely do not mean to insult or upset.

On turn 301 the English King wins by European Victory.
So no DoI of either player happened and i checked it often enough that it wont happen.

This probably means European victory has not been scaled properly.

And i never said there must be Trade Godds i just suggested something to get some kind of Idle Production but your Reply as Argument "wasnt present in vanilla" hardly sound like a real argument for me considering the dozens of Changes made between AodII and Vanilla...

Idle production can be turned into points or cannons, or wagons. Gold would have been a nice addition too though.

I am not so keen on producing trade goods, for the same reasons trade goods could not be produced back in vanilla 1994, which are reasons of economic balance. Unless you also suggest a change into indian reaction towards trade goods.

Cheers,
Mysh

[Dale]

Trade goods represent all the other "European crap" and is never supposed to be manufactured in the New World.

Ozzy's forces the game speed to NORMAL. It's not a bug.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Dale, don't you think trade goods need some moding in AoDII?

I used them a lot in vanilla, but I rarely do now.

[Dale]

When you say vanilla, you mean 94 right?

I think the problem with trade goods is that there isn't the profit in Indian trade of them, like there is in other products. I've never seen a tribe demand them. Makes it not worth it to import them.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Yes! From what I've seen, it may come on demand if you trade guns, horses, tools and a requested manufactured good...

So, if you hold your breath for 3min, lift your left leg, place your right arm below it, twist your right leg and hold your right toe with your left hand, it may eventually come on demand...

[Hermann the Lombard]

Ozzy's forces the game speed to NORMAL. It's not a bug.

It's an undocumented feature!

I see native demand for trade goods often enough that it doesn't seem unusual. May just be the luck of the RNG.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hermann, have you made any profit selling TGs to natives?

I may be wrong...

[immanuel_b]

i am sorry maybe you misunderstood it a tad here tho...
anyway what i meant with some kind of "Idle Production" was something like the FF Point Production. You turn it on and it just does whatever it does and usually doesnt stop. Both the Cannon or Wagon Building Production cant really count for such an "Idle" Queue really. its just me eventually but i find it annoying to build 20 Wagon Trains every 1-2 Turns and send em somewhere and select another WT to be built...

Dale now i am confused. So what you are saying is in the Scenario i can select Marathon Game but the Scenario forces itself to Normal Speed no matter what i select yes?
Now if thats true why are ALL other things not overrulled as well? i mean the Scenario doesnt force the "Normal" Stuff for the Soldiers for the Pioneers the Trade the Building the Immigration and whatsoever which is changed by game speed.
Now if you ask me either its a bug that it does force to normal or it is a bug that it does only force the turns to normal.

regards

[PrinceMyshkin]

Cool man, no prob.