No LB's until last moment ... that's the strategy?

[armyjournalist]

That could be a possible idea for a mod in the future -- bare bones colonies. Would definitely add an entire new level of difficulty to the game.

[Steve Clark]

That's actually a pretty good idea.

[armyjournalist]

Feel free to try it

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by kulak


I agree there needs to be a targeted measure of some sort to discourage ICS. However the effect of the LB penalty is not so much to discourage ICS, it is to discourage LB-generation. I am a classic builder, so I normally like to aim for the culture / science / etc stuff; maybe this is partly why I don't like the LB penalty, as it doesn't suit the way I like to play.

Tougher natives would be a better idea.

Other possibilities might involve:
-- making it harder to generate large surpluses of food, or harder to gain population through food;
-- reducing the efficiency of small cities, eg the founding citizen counts only for the city square, reducing the storage space available to small cities, increasing the cost of wagons, etc.

Anyway, there seems to be enough sentiment along these lines that I'm sure some kind of mod which suits me will pop up at some point. Of course I could make one myself, if I had any talent...

LB generation is an effective counter to ICS, because it means that the REF size will be somewhat proportionate to the size of the colony. You can certainly play a LB-heavy strategy, to a point, and do fine - many people have and do. You just have to accept the larger REF, and decide the benefits outweigh the penalties - which is called a strategic choice. It's quite possible to play Col as a builder and do quite well, as long as you have some military for the end...

[kulak]

Originally posted by snoopy369

LB generation is an effective counter to ICS, because it means that the REF size will be somewhat proportionate to the size of the colony.

You can certainly play a LB-heavy strategy, to a point, and do fine - many people have and do. You just have to accept the larger REF, and decide the benefits outweigh the penalties - which is called a strategic choice. It's quite possible to play Col as a builder and do quite well, as long as you have some military for the end...

As I understand it, ICS = the same population but spread over many small cities.

However since LB generation is a counter to population, regardless of how it is spread over cities, it has no direct effect on ICS.

So I don't quite understand how it operates as an effective counter to ICS?

[snoopy369]

The purpose for what we're (technically incorrectly) referring to as ICS in Col is to have more citizens == more money. In Col, more citizens directly equates to more money=more arms=easier REF; and more cities gives you more citizens (if you build food-producing cities, which is trivial). (This is also the original purpose of ICS, by the way - initially to get more small cities, but ultimately to get more large cities.)

I don't think there's a need to differentiate strategically between many small cities and fewer large cities - both have advantages, and disadvantages. It's only many large cities that are the problem. If you prefer to think of it as 'population', which is certainly more accurate, do so - but ability to fight the REF increases at least linearly with population, and I'd argue at a greater speed than that. Hence there needs to be an effective counter.

[armyjournalist]

Originally posted by kulak


However since LB generation is a counter to population, regardless of how it is spread over cities, it has no direct effect on ICS.

So I don't quite understand how it operates as an effective counter to ICS?

Simple. If you spread your population over many small cities, you will not be able to field as many troops against the REF since you have to leave at least one colonist inside:

4 cities w/ 10 pop= max 36 militia
10 cities w/4 pop= max 30 militia

[Unimatrix11]

Maybe for Col, there should distinctive SP- and MP-modes, the SP-mode´s rulesbeing more ´true to the original´ - for in that i couldnt find anything wrong with it and i can only imagine some of the changes being introduced for MP, where they might be abosultely essential (or not - i dunno)...

[The Rusty Gamer]

Maybe the LB trigger for more REFs could be modified downwards if you have more colonies which would encourage building them.

[snoopy369]

Umm, we don't want to encourage building more colonies (which is what that does). There's plenty of reason to do that already.

[The Rusty Gamer]

But didn't you havew to build heaps more colonies in the original? A friend of mine would often end up with the maximum 48 colonies after conquering all the other European powers.

[LordBiff]

Wow, after reading all this, it doesn't sound like a fun game at all. I am a builder type player, I like to build up a good economy. This sounds like a game that I would not like to finish/win. I haven't played any game to the end yet. I just got the game. I noticed in a game that the Kings army was huge. Now I know why. This doesn't sound like a game worth trying to win, as it stands now.

[Mark123jansen]

Originally posted by LordBiff
Wow, after reading all this, it doesn't sound like a fun game at all. I am a builder type player, I like to build up a good economy. This sounds like a game that I would not like to finish/win. I haven't played any game to the end yet. I just got the game. I noticed in a game that the Kings army was huge. Now I know why. This doesn't sound like a game worth trying to win, as it stands now.

That has always been my problem with Colonization, I LOVE the gameplay, micromanaging your colonies, selling to europe while training up specialists and dealing with natives.

But the independence war just isnt any fun The lack of alternative victories is a real shame imo and makes builder playstyle a lot less fun.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer
But didn't you havew to build heaps more colonies in the original? A friend of mine would often end up with the maximum 48 colonies after conquering all the other European powers.

Nah, it's easier if you do but it's not required. You can win Col1 with as few as 5 colonies.

[The Rusty Gamer]

It would be good to be able to have an economic win.

If you want to just pklay around with trade though, you can create a custom game whereby you switch off winning conditions and also remove other European powers if you want.