Destiny of Empires II [Organization Thread]

[OzzyKP]

Game info:


Server address: artemis.weplayciv.com:2070

PYT: http://www.playyourturn.com/?page_id=17&gameID=308

The DoE2 Mod:
http://apolyton.net/attachment.php?a...1&d=1331501889

Story thread:
http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/1...I-Story-Thread

The Players:
OzzyKP - Byzantines
LzPrst - France
Dick76 - England
Toni - Germany
Kenshin2 - Spain
Jehoshua - Russia
1889 - India
DNK - Khmer
MNGoldenEagle - Korea
Black Knight 427 - Japan
Calanthian - China



- Map: World Map, 1000 AD scenario
- Players: 11
- Normal Barbarians
- Aggressive AI
- Random Events
- No Tech Trading
- No Score Mod

[Calanthian]

Maybe the standard 1000 AD scenario is interesting!

[Calanthian]

If modding activity is needed:

I am available. I have a good idea what I can and what I can't do quickly. And indeed a week would be a good, quick schedule.
So Inca I am available on the modding front, and you know what I can do

Perhaps a map and mod set in England and Ireland will work..

Add the Irish, Scotts, Welsh, Normandy civs (mod)..

Play roster would be something like this:
* Ireland (2 civs), Great Britain (4 civs: English, Scotts, Welsh, ..), Danes, Vikings, Dutch, French, Normandy.
* Huge map
* Add Anglican religion

[St Jon]

@Cal, Is it possible to 'Mod' the game so that particular Civ's have access to certain Techs permanently blocked to them? Obviously they would need a 'pay-back' in another area to compensate. Thinking here of about the only 'serious' game which I still bother to play SP which is Civ Colonization. It's a fascinating era of history but the Colonization game itself is completely unsuitable, not sure it even has a PitBoss, other than for a quickie 'shoot 'em up' due to the 4 European Power and very weak Natives model. It would take one hell of a Mod to do it but it could make a great game.

I don't see much point in putting re-named Civ's onto a Flat-Map of the UK, calling Incense Wode, Offa's Dyke rplacing The Great Wall and all the Great People suddenly becoming British. That also raises the problem of who on Earth would play the Welsh?


BTW. You cannot just have 'the English' as it was relatively late in historical terms that there was an England. You cannot forget the Mercians, Northumbrians, Anglians and Jutes just because dear old Alfred turned Wessex into top dog!

[Russia (DoE)]

Yeah, new game will be fine.

We will miss the nuclear race, tanks roaming, paradrops, corporation wars, but well, lets call the game.

Lets this time we do the map large enough, so there is way of more diplomacy. Like taking 1 or 2 cities (or 10 in this regard) off someone without him being crippled beyond all repair. Like "I will give you those 3 cities if you help me fight this war, etc...

Possible scenario can be medieval Japan. Lots of factions, lot of history background, pictures, etc...
Or Caribbean in the 1600-1700's - Archipelago map with English, Dutch, Spaniards, French, pirates, colonies, etc
Or something really mean:

[Carthage (DoF)]

The last map: very creative.
But basically that is a pangaea map with inner seas..

[Calanthian]

Medieval Japan would be great!


http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~chgis/ja..._1564_1573.gif

We could find easy inspiration for the factions, UU's and UB's in Total War Shogun II.
And if we are not too critical about reusing lots of unit graphics we can even do it quite quickly.

Basically modding is quite easy if game mechanics are kept in place and one doesn't start redesigning graphics..

What I did for "Gods and Heroes" is reusing graphics from within the game, and from other mods..
Still I managed to make other religions, unique leaders, civs, UU's and UB's...

When choosing this time period we need to be creative with gunpowder... as basically only daimyo's which became christians had access to muskets..

[Calanthian]

It can work:

When choosing this time period we need to be creative with gunpowder... as basically only daimyo's which became christians had access to muskets..

This was a lot easier than i thought:

[Robert Plomp]

Calanthian: how much can you mod to the UN?
Can you make everybody eligible for the chairman position?
Can you remove the civic-votes? (they suck, imho, since they limit the possible game styles)

There was a list one day with stuff I'd like to mod for diplogaming....
I'll see if I can find it.

There's also something in the spanish forums going on about an android app for civ4 pitboss.
It apparently even makes it possible to do in-game diplo on your phone!

[Calanthian]

Calanthian: how much can you mod to the UN?

Really don't know. Should have to look into it.
The unit, building, tech and religion thing I've got covered. The rest I didn't do before.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

What about a mod to substantially increase the maintenance costs of units or upgrades? Or maybe big production cost increases as units become more advanced? A three or four-fold increase might make war far less frequent.

Another thing we could do is put a lot more food on the Map. Plentiful food would mean less of a need to expand to remain competitive. Plus there would be more incentive to trade for happiness resources, and to keep troops at home to keep cities happy.

Another thing is that bigger maps make things more peaceful.

[Inca (DoE)]

You can add costs into units easily through XML in the units.xml file.
I do that for industrial/modern/latemodern units @ +1/+2/+3 GPT usually to account for far higher capital costs and the addition of fuel costs. It prevents massive 50-100 unit late-game units; keeps things simpler, I think, given that you can easily make 700GPT by then, compared to like 100GPT in the early game, maybe 200-300 in the mid-game.

Increasing production costs are, of course, easily modded through XML under I feel that the late-game units scale up in hammer costs reasonable, though, so I don't usually adjust that.

Making food more common than happiness resources isn't a bad idea at all.

Another thing that makes things more peaceful is proper "border regions", places of marginal usefulness, like mountains, steppes, deserts, or good old water. I wouldn't plan another overly crowded map like DoE's, although I don't know, seems like the DoF map is going well. We can go the G&H map route and make the thing massive in size also.

Always, to reduce militarism, increasing defensive bonuses/promotions or decreasing the costs of defensive units helps. I think if we're starting in 1000AD, making walls/etc not obsoleted by rifling or gunpowder units is necessary.

Personally, I use this mod for SP:

• extra costs to later units
• slightly decreased defensive unit costs (archers, muskets, MGs, etc)
• walls, etc, don't obsolete and are in effect for everything but tanks
• bunkers and shelters get defensive bonuses also to account for late-game siege improvements (but require castles to build), plus shelters don't require Manhattan
• forts have increased defensive bonuses and are quicker to make
• no "X prerequisite buildings" for national wonders like Oxford
• jungles get +75% defensive bonuses but take out 5-10% health per turn of the units in them
• siege has stronger bombardment to make up for increased defenses (balancing)
• ships get increased movement speed (but not as high as DoE, which is excessive imo)

[OzzyKP]

As for the next one, I don't have a huge interest in a Great Britain game or a Japan game. Though I'd play either if folks wanted. I really want to do another world map game. If people wanted to just do an unedited 1000 AD game, I'm up for it. Maybe some cool mod improvements, but keep the map and placements the same. I'd love that!

[Calanthian]

Another idea geared at the fixed-alliance issue:

* A late game Revolution EVENT which creates the Communist Internationale, triggered by the invention of Communism.
* This event will transfer 20 % of all cities to the new Communist Internationale. All troops which are in the city at the moment the event triggers become communist too.
* A new PLAYER plays the communists.
* A VOTE decides who will be the player (from outside the game).
* Name for the game: Diplomacy or Guns (DoG)

[Russia (DoE)]

I want to do an Communist Internationale myself and just wanted the people to get closer to the Communism. I want to make the USSR dream of every country in the world becoming Communist. Maybe there will be few players who will refuse and the class clash (commies/democrats/fascists) will happen after all.

[OzzyKP]

New Diplo!

I created a new thread, moved over all the recent posts about a new game here, and created an OP with two options for settings. Check it out.

[St Jon]

I would like to get back into playing a 'Real Diplo', though in truth my heart lies with a less rigid style, as the Role-Play is such fun and you can still enjoy running a lost cause. I have concerns, however and I summarise them here.

I have issues with the 'Earth Model', which is why I quit DoE within 10 Turns and I am the perennial stick with it guy, as you cannot generate a big enough Map to accommodate 18 Players. If, as you must to use it, want a degree of 'Real' World feeling you have to accept that certain Civ's are going to span continents and achieve populations of over a billion whilst others will either disappear or be reduced to little more than satellites. This goes against the whole 'Diplo' ethos but it is the way that the World works and needs to be reflected in any such game. You HAVE to allow annihilation and Vassalage! The model just won't work with 18 Players as you will get too many sidelined people who obviously lose interest as they really have little or nothing to do. You will get Super-Powers and the Warsaw Pact v NATO will come to pass - face it!

From what I have read of the progress of DoE the quitting was a major issue and stagnation brought about by major Power Blocks was a killer. Look at the 'Real' World and ask yourself just what else could England, Spain, Portugal, etc have done but expanded overseas and effectively either consigned entire peoples to vassalage or committed monstrous acts of genocide. They had no choice, no excuse, because they were collectively too strong to destroy eachother but far too weak to survive in isolation. It's not nice and this is my big issue with a Diplo based on real geography as you try to use a sword that cuts both ways and will never work properly as that sword tries to be true to life whilst being blunt on the other edge and never cutting too deep.

My opinions which I guess you can tell indicate a lack of desire to participate in a straight DoE reprise.

[Robert Plomp]

When I saw the game title I knew that Ozzy had started it
I'll follow the thread and decide in the end if I'll join or not.

[OzzyKP]

When I saw the game title I knew that Ozzy had started it
I'll follow the thread and decide in the end if I'll join or not.

So who is in?

[Russia (DoE)]

I dont know - I am in too much games I guess. But knowing myself, I can hardly resist

I will see - if we gather enough and reliable players and I like the scenario, I will join.

[Robert Plomp]

If I'll join depends on if I'll have enough time. I'll accept any game settings.

[Inca (DoE)]

Must be toroidal map. Forgot that one, but it's essential for MP, I think.

[Sommerswerd]

Isn't Toroidal the default setting for all maps? Or is it cylindrical? I always get them confused. Which is which? I like it when the East-west ends connect, the default setting. But I want another Earth Map so I guess it doesnt matter.

I would play if there is an Earth Map or a random Map, but not a localized one.

[Russia (DoE)]

Cylindrical is the default (east-west are connected and there are polar caps) . Toroidal quadruples the maintenance (I think).

[Calanthian]

Option 2:

- Map: World Map, 1000 AD scenario
- Players: 18
- Normal Barbarians
- Random Events
- no tech trading
- vassal states allowed, but no capitulation
- ships move twice as fast on ocean tiles! (less of a boost for modern ships)
- tiers? Or maybe best players pick last?

YES PLEASE!

[OzzyKP]

Ok! Let's start a vote!

List of players (add your name):

1. OzzyKP
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.


Option 1 or 2?: Option 2

Civ Switching?: Yes

[Sommerswerd]

Option 1, No switching.

[Inca (DoE)]

Toroidal means that neighbor connections increase greatly. It means there is X-axis and Y-axis wrapping. So, no more "corner" civs with one or two empty sides to their empires. Everyone has neighbors in every direction. The average neighbor civ number increases greatly this way.

Now, on to options. Things I sort of insist upon:
Ships don't all have double MPs. It should be capped around 10MPs. Your average train runs about 50MPH (in the States, and let's assume we aren't bullet training our troops around the country). I think destroyers usually run about 35MPH at top speed on calm seas. Giving destroyers MORE movement points than trains makes 0 sense, and it kills naval tactics heavily.
So, 1MP land troops get 10MPs on rail networks. While it makes a lot of sense to give earlier ships (galleons and frigates) significantly more movement, by the late game it's not necessary and quite unrealistic to have ships bolting around the world twice as fast as trains.

I propose this for oceanic MPs:
4MPs - galleys-triremes
6MPs - caravels-galleons-frigates-SotLs-Privateers-attack/missile subs-ironclads
8MPs - transports-battleships-carriers
10MPs - destroyers-advanced ships

Beyond that, I really hate REs, and don't care much about the rest.

[OzzyKP]

You'll see that for both options I indicated that modern ships wouldn't receive as big a bonus. Please vote.

[Sommerswerd]

What are these "REs" Inca hates?

I liked the double movement, but frankly can't we just play with the default movement if folks are uncomfortable with it. I mean no matter how you slice it, ship movement is unrealistic, so why even bother with discussing it in terms of realism? The faster ships move, the more valuable ships become, so we can just go with the default and have less naval battles in general.