Apolyton Fantasy Football

[Al B. Sure!]

close but no cigar.

No one ever said it was a perfect indicator, just that it would probably be a good differentiation stat.

Had I scored 5 more points against Jaguar and beat him, Flash and I would have had identical records.

He would have out-scored me by 203 points but I would have had 56 more points against. It seems hard to justify giving me the playoffs because of more points against when he outscored me by 4x the difference in points against.

I don't know how common a situation like this is but the fact that it was 5 points in week 10 away from happening makes me wonder. Points Against does not say anything about what your team actually scored or how those points were distributed. A few blow-outs can inflate points against and one would be rewarded for, potentially, games where they score 50 points to their opponent's 200 being more valued than a loss of 99-100. Both losses count the same for the two players in their W-L columns but hard for me to justify the guy who scored 50 points getting the tie-breaker because of a game he was blown out in.

[MRT144]

If we harken back to last year's discussion about luck i made a very complicated and potentially useless measure of luck that took some of these things into account;

1. Being the #1 for the week was somewhat lucky.
2. Being the #14 for the week was somewhat unlucky.
3. Facing the #1 for the week was very unlucky
4. Facing the #14 for the week was very lucky.

In the first two cases, your luck is somewhat determined by draft and roster choices.
In the latter two cases, your luck is mostly determined by who you faced and their roster and draft choices.

Imagine the most extreme scenario where your team goes 0-13 because you played the #1 team each week. And each week you came in 2nd place overall. Also, imagine the opposite where you go 13-0 where you played the the worst team each week and each week you're 2nd to worst.

If we were running a league where that happened, it'd be hard to imagine anyone thinking the 13-0 truly deserved or earned their spot at the end of the season.

Maybe the best tie breaker measure is to count wins vs. league as a tie breaker.

[rah]

You can create "unfair" situations for any tiebreaker. In a single division fantasy league, after head-to-head, common opponents, anything else is possibly flawed so as long as everyone knows what it is at the beginning of the year, that's the best you can do. I only liked the points against since it shows what your team overcame. But as noted, not perfect.

[Al B. Sure!]

You can create "unfair" situations for any tiebreaker. In a single division fantasy league, after head-to-head, common opponents, anything else is possibly flawed so as long as everyone knows what it is at the beginning of the year, that's the best you can do. I only liked the points against since it shows what your team overcame. But as noted, not perfect.

I don't understand the logic though in points against when you can just go with points for.

Am I the only one missing this? You go with the guy who scored more points because his team was better in general. Yes, the distribution can be skewed where he had maybe 3 huge weeks, but generally speaking, more fantasy points scored trumps more fantasy points against. Your team could be shitty but gave up a crapload of points against.

I'm not understanding how points against could be a valid tie-breaker in anything but a 2nd or 3rd tie-breaker situation after points for.

Points for directly corresponds to your fantasy team. Points against has NOTHING to do with your fantasy team and is 100% schedule.

[Donegeal]

Fantasy football is not comparable to the NFL in terms of tiebreakers. It's funny that Alby has been on both sides of this issue.

I remember missing the FF playoffs on the points tiebreaker and being outraged. It feels wrong, but at the end of the day, it's just a rule. When you agree to play in a league, you accept the rules and their consequences. My take on it is that total points makes more logical sense, in that it's a good estimate of the season-long strength when comparing two teams. But I can understand going the other way.

IRL, head-to-head is the dominant tiebreaker in pro sports. It's more emotionally satisfying, and makes the choice between two teams very straightforward. But real life is based on full teams, including awesome defenses and conservative gameplans designed to produce low-scoring games (and, obviously, victories). FF is all about putting points on the board. Defensive scoring is combined with offense, and there's very little "game planning" or strategy vs. a given opponent (other than trying nerf the opponent's QB by starting a marginal pass-catcher against him in PPR).

So on balance, I think total points is more fair.

And herein lies the problem with traditional FF scoring. It doesn't matter who you play against. You get the same points no matter your opponent. Not the case in category scoring.

There most certianly can be strategy in FF, just like in regular football. The same week Brady was on a bye this year, was the same week I was playing against Brees. Knowing that the top FA QB wasn't going to throw for more yards than Brees, I opted for a running FA QB to help in the rushing category. Sure I lost the passing category 7-0, but the move put me over the top in Rushing and I won Rushing 10-0.

Not only that, but traditional FF scoring results in football scores of 150.6 to 175.8. This is retarded. The most common score in category scoring is 27-24. Holy crap! A football score!

[MRT144]

Barring the gibberish emanating from the old coot above...

[rah]

I don't understand the logic though in points against when you can just go with points for.

I don't think I said anywhere that one is better than the other. I just LIKED one better than the other. I think all the later tie breakers are flawed.

[Al B. Sure!]

Barring the gibberish emanating from the old coot above...

I was just going to put a rolleyes smiley but I thought I was being harsh. Some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate, I figured. You are ballsy, MRT.

[-Jrabbit]

Alby, my recommendation re your money league is that you grit your teeth, grin and bear it. Those guys aren't going to change, and they will never believe that it's about anything other than the fact that it's your ox being gored.

Let it go.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah

[Donegeal]

:

Old coot. Not in the compay we keep HERE!

[-Jrabbit]

Yeah

Perhaps your most reasonable post ever!

[Berzerker]

I like pts, I'd do a pts league if not for liking h2h too (and that we've done h2h for years)... h2h adds a bit more to sundays that a pts league would be missing, but I value pts more than anything else.

maybe we can add a roto or pts league next year, I'd commish.

[flash9286]

It's very simple. For a TIE-BREAKER, it makes more sense to have it be points for because that rewards overall season performance rather than the outcome of two specific head to head games. This is not REAL football with gameplanning for your opponent. Fantasy football is about scoring points and, for the future, if two teams have identical records, the tie-breaker should be points for, not head to head

This is pretty much the argument for points as a tie-breaker. If he/she doesn't understand the logic, you can't do anything else about it. H2H values one sets of wins over another set of wins. If you have 2 teams (A and B) with the same records, and Team A has beat Team B, then conversely Team A has to have a lost to a team that Team B beat, in a simple round robin type of league. There is no reason for me to value one set of wins over another. Pts gives you a tie-breaker that takes the teams whole season performance instead of one or two games.

I don't see any reason why you would use pts against as a tiebreaker when you can use pts scored.

[-Jrabbit]

OK, playoffs start tonight for IDP.

A couple interesting notes on the final week of the regular season:
1. Mountain Goats (Jaguar) put a beatdown on Berz to push him out of the championship bracket.
2. Hairball Express (Tuberski) squeezed Electric Slide Jedi (Ben) out of the consolation bracket 8 seed by 0.65 total points (total scoring tiebreaker). That's gotta hurt.

Congrats to Guynemer on winning the regular season title (11-3) and the overall scoring title.

And yes, my Vicious Rabbits did manage to squeez into the consolation bracket as the overall #7 seed despite giving up more points than anyone else. Managed to finish 4th in overall scoring and ended the year with a 5-game winning streak. (Side note: Sloww really got pounded the last several weeks, nearly overtaking me in Points Against. That weekly average was about 156.66, down from 172 at midseason.)

So it's Deviations vs. Calamitous Intent and A Dead Horse vs. Mountain Goats in the championship bracket.

Good luck to all.

Quick reminder -- We have both Thursday AND Saturday games this week. Be advised.

[Al B. Sure!]

Perhaps your most reasonable post ever!

My last comment to them last week was basically Flash's post. And I ended it with 'just a suggestion to consider next year'.

I got:

you shouldn't type that much, it's too easy to ignore, win more next year, next year


Okay now I'm ****ing ticked off.

By the way, judging how Romo, MJD, and Miles Austin did, looks like I'll get high score of the week this week as well. Ridiculous if I get high score of the week two straight weeks in the playoffs while not in the playoffs.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

....aaaaaand Drew Brees is about to knock me out of the playoffs in both leagues.

[-Jrabbit]

That is an unlucky matchup. Doubly unlucky, I guess.

5 TD day, 400+ yds... that's over 70 points. Ouch.

[MRT144]

Drew Brees did a good job in knocking me out of the auction leage but helped in the dst. **** donald brown though. I was up by 115 or so before that

[MRT144]

**** eli manning

[Donegeal]

You ready for some more gibberish about why category scoring is better than traditional scoring?

You guys: "Of course we are, Donegeal, we wait on bated breath for your every keystroke... mispeled as it maybe."

Great. Playing to go to the Fantasy bowl. Key parts is I've got Brady and my opponent has Brees. I can see a great passing day coming from Brees from a long way off (not 414 yards and 5 TDs, mind you, but a great day none the less). Time to think strategy. If I don't think Brady can keep pace with Brees and probably loose the passing category 10-0, how do I win my game? By starting a QB that scores well in other categories... in this case, rushing. Guess who I started over Brady because I didn't think Brady was going to beat Brees? I bet you Al knows who. By starting Tebow over Brady, I still have a chance of winning tonight. If I'd have started Brady, my game would be all but done. Category scoring = Fantasy Football gametime strategy

It doesn't get any better.

[MRT144]

That system just highlights how stupid category scoring is. Selecting a deficient QB to win? CMON!

[Berzerker]

tough loss Flash, fortunately for me SD was far enough ahead to run out the 4th qt

[Al B. Sure!]

You ready for some more gibberish about why category scoring is better than traditional scoring?

You guys: "Of course we are, Donegeal, we wait on bated breath for your every keystroke... mispeled as it maybe."

Great. Playing to go to the Fantasy bowl. Key parts is I've got Brady and my opponent has Brees. I can see a great passing day coming from Brees from a long way off (not 414 yards and 5 TDs, mind you, but a great day none the less). Time to think strategy. If I don't think Brady can keep pace with Brees and probably loose the passing category 10-0, how do I win my game? By starting a QB that scores well in other categories... in this case, rushing. Guess who I started over Brady because I didn't think Brady was going to beat Brees? I bet you Al knows who. By starting Tebow over Brady, I still have a chance of winning tonight. If I'd have started Brady, my game would be all but done. Category scoring = Fantasy Football gametime strategy

It doesn't get any better.

That is the stupidest **** ever. You act like that **** makes it real? Since when do you see a real NFL team start a different QB based on matchup; or let alone, a worse QB (yes, Brady is better than Tim Tebow, obviously).

Wow.

What's extra retarded is doing that put you at an advantage. Brady had more total yards than Tebow and scored 3 touchdowns (Brady threw 2 and ran in one whereas Tebow only ran in 2).

[-Jrabbit]

It feels more strategic to him. Like he has options as the coach/GM.

I have no problem with that. Not my cup of tea, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Al B. Sure!]

It feels more strategic to him. Like he has options as the coach/GM.

I have no problem with that. Not my cup of tea, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

But he acts like it's so superior and realistic.

[-Jrabbit]

I recommend you don't play in his league then.

Who are we to judge how people get their jollies?

[Al B. Sure!]

I recommend you don't play in his league then.

Who are we to judge how people get their jollies?

You're acting like Sloww, Jrabbit.

My point is it's one thing if it's just a case of some people like vanilla and some like chocolate but donegeal always blathers about how his way is superior and more realistic. He proselytizes his way of playing fantasy. Criticizing it is therefore fair game and is beyond the realm of vanilla vs. chocolate.

[Donegeal]

I'm just kinda surprized that you guys wouldn't like a system that adds a level of strategy. This is, afterall, a strategy website. Although I readily admit that is has gone WAY off course!

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm just kinda surprized that you guys wouldn't like a system that adds a level of strategy. This is, afterall, a strategy website. Although I readily admit that is has gone WAY off course!

If strategy means playing Tebow over Brady not because you think Tebow will be more productive but because you want to take an L in a head-to-head passing category to get a boost in the rushing one... that strategy sounds retarded. And it's not realistic, either. Just because one QB throws for 400 yards doesn't mean that the other QB won't throw for 350 or that throwing for 350 would be a bad thing. I fail to understand the logic of these categories.

Really, if you want real fantasy strategy, buy Madden, make full-rostered fantasy teams, make gameplans (you can set which plays to get called in what situations), set the teams to CPU, and come back in an hour. It would be more like what you're trying to do but actually make some sense in trying to simulate real-life, even if it doesn't actually happen on a field.