US Gun Laws

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

No need. Unlike those poor Brits with their insane libel standards, we have freedom of speech.

Next time you're in court, try repeatedly calling the Judge a ****, and see how far your freedom of speech gets you.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Hey! I saw crime stats back there!

According to the UN International Study on Firearm Regulation, in 1994 the homicide rate in England (including Wales) was 1.4 (9% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 116, per 100,000 population. In the United States, the homicide rate was almost 9.0 (70% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 234, per 100,000. England has strict gun control laws, ergo, the argument goes, the homicide rate is far lower than in the United States. However, such comparisons can be dangerous: in 1900, when England had no gun controls, the homicide rate was only 1.0 per 100,000.

Have you noticed that there's no comparative mention of US homicide rates in 1900?



I wonder why.

Moreover, using data through 1996, the U.S. Department of Justice study Crime and Justice concluded that in England the robbery rate was 1.4 times higher, the assault rate was 2.3 higher, and the burglary rate was 1.7 times higher than in the United States. Only the murder and rape rates in the United States were higher than in England.

Much higher. Incidentally, UK homicide rate is now down to 1.28.

The world was horrified on April 20 when two students used guns and bombs to murder a dozen classmates and a teacher in Littleton, Colorado. The Congress is now stampeding to pass additional restrictions on the acquisition of firearms.. Yet in 1996, a pederast who legally owned guns under England's strict regulations went on a rampage in which he murdered 16 children and a teacher in Dunblane, Scotland. The Parliament responded with an outright ban on all handguns and most rifles.

Incidentally, we've had no mass school shootings since then, and only one notable spree killing. How're you doing on that score, Virginia Tech?

[Hauldren Collider]

Incidentally, we've had no mass school shootings since then, and only one notable spree killing. How're you doing on that score, Virginia Tech?

Quite well. The Virginia General Assembly has resisted all attempts to ban guns since the attacks

If I recall correctly, even Jim Webb, one of our democratic senators, is anti-gun control.

[Felch]

Next time you're in court, try repeatedly calling the Judge a ****, and see how far your freedom of speech gets you.

Freedom of speech doesn't entitle you to interfere with judicial proceedings. But after court is done, feel free to say whatever you want about that Judge in print or any other media. English libel laws allow for frivolous suits that stifle debate and open discourse, even beyond your own borders.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Libel isn't a crime. Unlike crossing the street in the wrong place- if you're American.

[Hauldren Collider]

Libel isn't a crime. Unlike crossing the street in the wrong place- if you're American.

Well nobody ever arrests you for it, it merely makes you responsible for your own death by stupidity if you get run over.

[Felch]

I'm not entirely certain what he's talking about there. Is he referring to jaywalking? I've never even heard of anybody being charged with jaywalking.

While libel isn't a crime it is a legal tool that allows the rich and powerful to abuse the common folk and suppress embarrassing information. English libel laws are certainly more socially destructive than jaywalking laws are in the U.S.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Nevertheless, the laws are there, as are the criminal penalties.

If we're broadening the sphere to the Civil courts, English libel laws lag quite a long way behind American Tort laws in terms of bonkerness and social impact. Punitive damages? Nice blurring of the Civil/Criminal barrier there, lads.

And I do have a quiet chuckle about complacent parading of "Freedom of speech" in a nation that still won't let in communists. Afraid they might say something persuasive?

So, in summary, you can say what you like in the US. Unless it upsets the judiciary. Or is obscene. Or are "fighting words". Or might cause security inconveniences.

[Al B. Sure!]

Have you noticed that there's no comparative mention of US homicide rates in 1900?

HEY BUGS!!! I wouldn't expect you of all people to be that misleading. Can you get a chart that goes into the 90's and 00's? You know, when the homicide rate PLUMMETED?


Check 2009 data. It's 4.96 homicides per 100K. That puts it in Pre-Drug Laws 1960-era.

Oh and we still have Drug Laws.

Really, Bugs? Really? My opinion of you has plummeted because of this obvious lying.

[Al B. Sure!]

Really, dude, 1994 stats is what you're using, Bugs? Way to use the last year of extraordinary high murder rates in this country as your standard. From 1995 on, murder rates plummeted in the US.

Guns are still here and the Drug Laws are still in place yet the murder rate plummeted.

[C0ckney]

HEY BUGS!!! I wouldn't expect you of all people to be that misleading.

you've never debated with him before?

[Al B. Sure!]

you've never debated with him before?

apparently not. I'm a little bothered by such disingenousness. Not just from him but from whatever website he got that graphic from. Like really people lie and omit information like that to serve their political agenda? That's ****ed up.

And the thing is, the 4.96 homicide rate in the US in 2009 is still much higher than Britain's homicide rate, for example. So he didn't HAVE to be misleading.

[Wezil]

You might want to give him an opportunity to respond before continuing with your lynching.

Just saying.

[Fake Boris]

Well nobody ever arrests you for it, it merely makes you responsible for your own death by stupidity if you get run over.

Someday you'll understand.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

HEY BUGS!!! I wouldn't expect you of all people to be that misleading. Can you get a chart that goes into the 90's and 00's? You know, when the homicide rate PLUMMETED?


Check 2009 data. It's 4.96 homicides per 100K. That puts it in Pre-Drug Laws 1960-era.

Oh and we still have Drug Laws.

Really, Bugs? Really? My opinion of you has plummeted because of this obvious lying.

I was countering a set of UK figures in Doc's post that ended in 1996, you blithering idiot. It's called "comparison".

Incidentally, the UK figure is now 1.28 homicides per 100K. So from a similar starting point, the US is now nearly 4 times higher. You see?