Is feminism inherently negative?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kidicious

And why shouldn't we take care of women?

The question is not of whether or not we should or should not take of women - as a side note, I believe we should - but of whether or not we should be forced to take care of them.

Originally posted by Kidicious

Hell they take care of us. Women work a hell of a lot more than men do especially when you consider all the housework, and child raising they do.

They work a hell of a lot more because they chose to do two jobs at once - that of a breadwinner, as well as that of a caretaker. One person is not meant to do both.

Originally posted by Kidicious

Men are lazy slobs comparably.

Why the sexism?

Originally posted by Kidicious

Think it threw before you speak bud.

Think it through before you type it, bud.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm


I want them to go wherever they choose to go. If they choose to stay in the same place, fine by me. If they choose to go somewhere else, pursue a career, again fine by me. The important thing is that I believe that it should be their choice, free from the prejudices of people like you, who think that career women are intrinsically superior.

You have to take into consideration the way women are raised and all the crap that they have learned. Feminism is liberation of the mind. If you listen to it and then you still decide to be a housewife then fine. But you still have to listen to it or you can never be free to make a good choice for yourself. That is the value of feminism.

[aneeshm]

Another basic mistake feminists make is of assuming that every woman wants what they want her to want, not what she really wants, and not bothering to find out anyway.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by aneeshm


How, pray, am I a sexist? I believe that if a firl wants to pursue a career, then she should be allowed to do so, the same way you would with a son.

I, however, also believe that there should not be a stigma associated with a woman who chooses a more traditional role. It is you who are the sexist, who holds that all women who stay at home are intrinsically inferior to those with a career. Drop your holier than thou attitude, it is you who needs to change and get over your prejudiced attitude.

NOW we have a strawman (again of your creation) regarding what I believe. I don't believe that those who work are superior to those who stay home.

YOU set up the example that Kuci responded to. If you didn't believe that, fine, but you created the example. You aren't sexist in a particularly nasty way, perhaps, but you definitely seem to lack an understanding of women (heh, funny saying that on Apolyton) and feminism (which I'm no expert on, I should add). Have much experience with either?

By the way, to say that you think a certain "critical mass" should stay in traditional roles but individuals can make their own choices and oh by the way there will be no stigma... is hilarious. Think it through. If your culture is set up such that a majority of people conform to certain roles, anyone who choses against those roles will be sigmatized.

-Arrian

[Pekka]

Kid, he is missing the whole point of assumed gender based roles in society and the power of it.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Another basic mistake feminists make is of assuming that every woman wants what they want her to want, not what she really wants, and not bothering to find out anyway.

There you go again, asserting something (that appears to be gibberish) that supposedly "feminists" do. All feminists? Most? Many? WTF?

You sound like a classic American right-winger whining about "feminazis" because *gasp* some woman didn't like his joke that began with "so me and my buddies walked into a titty bar..."

-Arrian

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kidicious


You have to take into consideration the way women are raised and all the crap that they have learned. Feminism is liberation of the mind. If you listen to it and then you still decide to be a housewife then fine. But you still have to listen to it or you can never be free to make a good choice for yourself. That is the value of feminism.

What if women are raised in a feminist environment? In that case, feminism IS the "way women are raised and all the crap that they have learned". Please understand that embracing feminism simply means replacing one conditioning with another.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm
The question is not of whether or not we should or should not take of women - as a side note, I believe we should - but of whether or not we should be forced to take care of them.

Men and corporations have to be forced to do things or they won't. That's apparent.

They work a hell of a lot more because they chose to do two jobs at once - that of a breadwinner, as well as that of a caretaker. One person is not meant to do both.

Yes they choose to work more. Very good. Point?

Why the sexism?

See above. You just agreed that women work more.

[Arrian]

Is it really so suprising and terrible, aneeshm, that a society that has been patriarchal for basically its entire existence (this, as far as I know, applies to both India and the West) eventually generates a feminist movement? And that there are extremists in that movement (as well as in opposition to it)?

Why are you so threatened by it?

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm


What if women are raised in a feminist environment? In that case, feminism IS the "way women are raised and all the crap that they have learned". Please understand that embracing feminism simply means replacing one conditioning with another.

Why would it have to be a feminist environment? If women were truly treated as equals everywhere in society, including the family, they why would we need feminism? How would that be a bad thing? How is that crap?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by aneeshm
How, pray, am I a sexist? I believe that if a firl wants to pursue a career, then she should be allowed to do so, the same way you would with a son.

Ain't what you said. You said you prefer the woman to stay home in your 'traditional' household.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian

Is it really so suprising and terrible, aneeshm, that a society that has been patriarchal for basically its entire existence (this, as far as I know, applies to both India and the West) eventually generates a feminist movement?

Not really. Point is, there is NO credible feminist movement in India. None. At all.

Originally posted by Arrian

And that there are extremists in that movement (as well as in opposition to it)?

The Indian feminist "movement" consists pretty much of a bunch of extremists only. The result is that that societal backlash against the movement is much more prominent than the movement itself. Women don't want to be associated with feminism in India, because people (including women) have pretty much seen through it.

Originally posted by Arrian

Why are you so threatened by it?

-Arrian

How can the Patriarchan be threatened when he has already won?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Pekka
Kid, he is missing the whole point of assumed gender based roles in society and the power of it.

Bingo.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Ain't what you said. You said you prefer the woman to stay home in your 'traditional' household.

I prefer a critical mass of women to stay home in an extended nuclear family or joint family structure. This is a statistical preference. Individuals have to be dealt with on an individual basis.

[Arrian]

Point is, there is NO credible feminist movement in India. None. At all.

Then quit whining about it, and enjoy your patriachy

-Arrian