Reply With QuoteDid I overlook units & terrain files somewhere?
Bumping this thread for Michael Daumen and anyone else interested. The KW scen is a few posts above this one. Be warned, it's still a work in progress; as Curt says just above, it 'needs a bit of polish.' Try it though, and let me know what you think.
Did I overlook units & terrain files somewhere?
"You give a guy a crown and it goes straight to his head."
-OOTS
I believe I put them in the third zip file (not including sounds).
Well, I think I might give this a look, as I'm likely to get ToT for my B-day.
Anyway, how are you handling the Korean Army? Civ 2 battles are basically struggles of annihiliation (one unit must be killed; there isn't a chance for a unit in battle to be defeated in battle and run away, like in Civ 3), and from what I know of the Korean War, the ROK army was defeated but survived to fight another day, from which Van Fleet, if memory serves, helped modernize (an advance + Leo's Workshop in a Japanese city might work for this.) Than again, I'm no expert about the ROK army, so...
Anyway, I'll download the new files when I get the chance and, if I get ToT (yes, I tried to download the demo... no, it didn't work), I'll tell you what I think.
And there is no reason the Turkish infantry shouldn't have bayonets.
The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm
Well, I'm able to play ToT now, so I took the scenario and played it.
The initial blitzkireg was shocking, and I think in the first turn Pusan may have been threatened. The perimeter definitively was. I remember deciding that it would be best if I delpoy my troops to the mountains outside of a city (there was a city between it and Pusan, and mountains were directly north of it - I forgot the name), as they have better defense values, only to watch the NK forces bypass the city and take the southern one.
Naval support consisted of basically a few aircraft carriers and some transport ships. While this does seem a bit ahistorical (there were warships in the fleet), I can understand, given the criticisms of "the early UN forces are too powerful" of the earlier versions, why they're not there.
Ironically, I had some units on a ship en route to Inchon when even spawned the USMC landings at said port. So, with my "little Inchon" fleet nowhere near Inchon yet, I landed them at a friendly port and advanced from there. The forces spawned at Inchon seemed lower than the historical number (the historical forces had Pershings with them, for example), but it did provide some drama (will the Marines be able to hold Seoul and Inchon long enough to connect with the Pusan Perimeter forces, or will the NK dislodge them from their hard-fought posts? Find out next turn!)
As it was historically, Inchon proved a turning point in the war, as I was able to advance quite rapidly after the forces linked up (though not as rapidly as the historical forces.)
So, as of April 1951 all but one Korean city is in UN hands, and according to the text files, the Chinese are supposed to intervene. I find that dismaying, as I have scrupulously tried to avoid Chinese border posts whenever I can (I can vividly recall turning an M48 Patton around from taking a city when I saw Chinese border posts along the way. Not sure if I'll play from there, as I like having Korea all but unified under Southern control, but then I think I might try and invade China should they try anything.
The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm
Yes, the initial attacks by the NK are meant to be a real storm! And the Inch'on landing may be just a bit underpowered, I don't know. As for Chinese involvement, it's triggered EITHER by crossing the border or capturing too many NK cities. Invading China should be a real treat if you try it! Any suggestions on what I should change or further feedback would be appreciated.
My two penny worth
I have not had time to play this properly yet but to be fair I havn't played any other ToT scenarios from the big list of ones I have yet to play!
My initial impressions:
The NK invasion was terrifying. I like being terrified! I actually thought Pusan would fall on turn 1! I have been reading about the NK army recently and did not realise half of them were seasoned veterans of the Chinese Civil War! Also their Soviet style use of armoured blitzkrieg tactics comes across well. The cities look good and the terrain looks bleak.
One critisism would be that the map is a bit small, Korea itself anyway, and the mix of terrain seems to be pretty much mountain in the middle and flat ground sloping down to the coast with roads clear of obstruction.
What I would suggest is mixing up the terrain more, adding more hills and making the roads easier to block. Korea was an infantry / artillery war afterall!
I think you could resolve the map thing quite quickly and easily with the cheat menu!
I will play the game properly when I get enough free time.
Patine
Have you ever seen a Korean film called Taegukgi (Brotherhood) by Kang Je-Gyu about the Korean war?
If not I would HIGHLY recomend getting hold of a copy. It is a real epic s*$t kicker and would probably inspire you to finish this game.
The ROK attack on Pyongyang and the Chinese intervention are amazing and it is a good story too!
Thought I would bump this old thread to add feedback about The Korean War!
You have done a very good job with the North Korean attack. The second time I started the scenario (+sounds) the NK army was in the suburbs of Pusan on their first turn!
I am not sure how I will beat them back yet but I am working on a strategy.
I have a few comments:
-I really hate the broken and rocky terrains. Looks a bit too Mordor! I have added some replacement terrains in my scenario folder. They are not ideal but look less ugly!
-The artillery graphics (82mm Mortar/76mm/105mm and 122mm) need sorting. Fairline has made a good mortar graphic that could easily be converted. I have never seen a GB US 105mm to match the 25pdr. The rest of the units look great!
-The South Korean infantry are useless in attck. I think they should at least be able to hurt NK infantry or would this upset the game balance?
-On my first go I wasted a lot of US carrier aircraft attacking the NK army. Are they only intended to attack NK aircraft?
The British carrier planes were more potent.
-Although the various UN nations may not have sent that many troops to Korea I think including the minor infantry contingents adds to the colour of the game!
-I would like to see a tiny bit more veriety in the terrain in the extreme south of Korea. A few more hills and trees would make things more interesting. Historically the UN defences were in the hills around Pusan rather than out on the plains.
-I tried to pillage the roads leading to Pusan but it destroyed the stackable terrain first. Is there a way of chosing which improvement to destroy first? I know you can in MGE scenarios.
Thats all I can think of for now. I will add more when I have got a bit further on in the test
Attached is a squished MGE version of Fairlines 81/2mm mortar:
Have played the game several times at Emperor level and got wiped out very quickly! Bear it in mind that I am not the best player in the world but I cannot hold onto Pusan and the Inchon landing forces get wiped out before I even get to control them. The only useful units are the carrier planes and most of them get wiped out when some Yaks show up!
I will try again at King Level and see if I can hold Pusan long enough for the UN to arrive!
I think it has a lot of potential. The North Korean assault reminds me of Red Front and Frederick the Great, which can't be bad!
Cool! Things work much better at King Level. At least Pusan holds out until the UN reinforcements arrive. Also, before I was forgetting to re-home the units that fell back to Pusan...doh!
Inchon also works at King level!
The read me needs to explain which types of unit are good for certain jobs (IE Attack, Defence etc...). I know you can check the stats in the pedia, but a brief guide would make the units instantly understandable.
One important idea I think you should implement. The South Koreans you begin with should be re-named 'Constabulary'. I would then recommend adding a ROK Army unit to represent the re-organized, re-trained and re-equipped South Korean army. This unit should have similar stats to the UN infantry. You could use the space occupied by the Filipino (or whichever)UN troops.
I would create the three landing craft just off shore so that the Pusan units box does not get so full up.
Also, when the UN reinforcements appear the NK kill the Sabre before it can be used by the player. How about creating the aircraft somewhere offshore?
Some of the UN units stats seem a little weak too!
What is the purpose of the twin Mustang? Just recon?
I like this game a lot
What is it that you think needs doing to finish it?
Well, my reply is:
First of all, thanks for testing it, McMonkey, I appreciate it!
As for the ugly broken and rocky terrain, I pretty much agree. I was strapped for choice at the time. I would like better if someone's up to making it.
The US carrier aircaft are ideal against aircraft, but I used them successfully against NK land units in the open, I believe.
South Korean infantry weren't meant to be a contending unit, as they're the only military unit you can freely build. However, your later suggestion of 'constabulary' and 'ROK Army' may be worth pursuing.
The artillery could definitely use updated graphics.
Putting the Pusan landing craft and certain aircraft (like the Sabre) offshore may be a good idea.
Yes, the Twin Mustang is just for recon. That's how it was used historically.
As for UN stats and roles, I could probably sharpen those as well.
Thanks, again, for the initial playtest!
No probs. I am looking forward to having another (proper) go tommorow evening!
Historically, the first three North Korean airplanes destroyed by US forces were shot down by F-82s.The USAF officially credits the F-82 with 2 La-7 kills and one Yak-11 kill in that case. However, one of the planes downed over Kimpo by an F-82 was a Yak-9P, some say. Not that it makes that much of a difference.
Notes so far from playtest:
-Inchon invasion a bit too weak. One US Marine survived the landing but was badly damaged. Was killed when I tried to attack a US Marine that had been bribed by the North.
-If I was you I would ct out the bribery aspect altogether!
-I managed to stop all NK attacks on Pusan by creating a ring of bombers around the city. Is this what you intended? If not I would limit the range of almost all the aircraft to normal fighter range (1?)
Will post more in a bit. I typed all his before and then accidentally closed page so I may post several times to avoid doing this again!
This is an excellent scenario Patine. So far I have played as far as the UN capture of Pyongyang and will soon be pursuing the beaten North Koreans to the Yalu River and my troops should be home by Christmas...unless something unexpected happens
I think the Inchon landings can be sorted with a couple more Marines, no NK bribers plus a US tank and a bit of air support. The Marines to the SW of Inchon should be spawned in an Urban square too.
After Inchon the game runs a lot more smoothly. My only minor criticism is the way the NK army just disappears. A few more units in the NW of Korea would spice things up a bit.
I love Fairline's units. The reinforcements that appear in Pusan every few turns make for a colourful game.
A few minor notes:
-Instead of 88mm AA guns I would just call them Air defences or AA battery.
-I think there are a few too many choppers spawned. In Korea most helicopters were used in the utility role and for medevac. Having masses of gunships did not happen until the Vietnam War.
-Some of the UN infantry could have better offensive stats. The tanks are a bit too weak. The Pershing fares badly against the Su-76! The Corsair is a bit puny too.
-A few more hills in the south would allow the player to send the UN infantry into the hills to form a defensive perimeter around Pusan. Japan needs a few terrain features too although it is not directly involved in the war.
I think so far this is a great scenario, it has the one more turn factor! Just needs a bit of tweaking at the start but once it gets going it is fine. I am looking forward to find out what happens next when I play tomorrow
I have been away for a few days but before I left I triggered the Chinese intervention. If I was you I would scrap the border posts as this means the player has to attack China. I would start the Chinese intervention when the player captures one of the northern NK cities near the Chinese border, that way it is the Chinese who decide to attack the UN rather than UN aggression against China.
I have only played one turn against the Chinese and to be honest it was not quite what I was expecting. I think this could be sorted fairly easily. Firstly I would create more Chinese infiltrators in the hills behind the UN lines. You could also beef up their stats. One thing I did notice was that the Chinese had a lot of JS-2 and ISU-152. As far as I know their initial force was mainly infantry, it was the NK Army that used Soviet style armoured tactics.
As I said before, the game is very enjoyable and if you can fix up these few problems I think it will be ready to release as a finished scenario. I will carry on my test tomorrow.
Sorry for not responding quicker; I've been a tad busy. You've given some good advice, and just a few notes, though. There's a flag-based trigger that activates China after a certain number of NK cities have been captured, and then wipes the Chinese Border civ (the one that just has border posts), as well as creates a whole bunch of Chinese units. This is in addition to crossing the border as a way of triggering the Chinese. Though I agree, some of the stats and terrain could be altered a bit. I'll have to look into this...
I've picked this up again, after being 'distracted' by other things the last little while. I've been looking over McMonkey's last few posts, and a few previous, and I hope to have something workable in short order.
I just returned to working on this after a bit of being quite busy, and had an idea. I thought of putting the reinforcements in Kitakyushu, in Japan, and having enough transports and carriers with enough move to move them to Pusan in one turn. I've noticed with my own and others' playtests, Pusan often falls before reinforcements arrive, with the player unable to stop it, especially at Deity. Any thoughts on this idea, anyone?
I'd say make it an "alternative route," that reinforcements arrive in Kitakyushu only if Pusan falls (i.e. it's a spawn point after the Pusan coordinates in the CREATEUNIT spawn point list.) That way you don't have to move the transports and such if you can keep Pusan.
The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm
That is definitely a good idea, Ghost. It would encourage the player to hold onto Pusan to avoid unnecessary trips, but not doom the player to complete failure in the first two turns.
Just one historical correctness nitpick: The city of Kitakyushu didn't exist before 1963. The city that preceeded it was "Kokura" - which is now a district of Kitakyushu - so I suggest using that instead.Originally posted by GhostOfDisco
I'd say make it an "alternative route," that reinforcements arrive in Kitakyushu only if Pusan falls (i.e. it's a spawn point after the Pusan coordinates in the CREATEUNIT spawn point list.) That way you don't have to move the transports and such if you can keep Pusan.
Will make that change for the next version. Thanks!
Also remember to make the USMC units unbribable! (Started a Korean War game not to long ago - the Marines arrived at Inchon and at least one of them was bribed into defecting to Kim Il Sung. :roll: )
The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm
Of course. I plan to make all UN units unbribeable in the next version. I don't recall hearing stories of whole units, not even SK ones, defecting.
I've been very busy lately, but squeezed in a bit of time to finish my Korean War scen. I'm almost done, I just need two last things. First, I've got to lessen the mechanized element of the Chinese forces, as McMonkey pointed out, but that shouldn't take long. Second, I need someone to adjust my Broken and Rocky terrains so they don't look so Mordor-esque and so they fit in with the rest of the terrain and aren't so jarring to the eye. I've attached my two terrain files for anyone who wants to take a try at it.
Glad to hear you are back on this one. I enjoyed the playtest. I think the Chinese should still be a big threat, maybe their Infantry could be strong, mobile and numerous. Their intervention should be as strong if not stronger than the very well done initial North Korean invasion!
I will have a go at the terrain if you like?
I do actually agree with Chinese Infantry being more of a threat to the UN forces, and I do have events in place to generate Chinese forces forward of North Korean and some South Korean cities captured from the UN the same way I did the North Korean invasion by generating their forces forward of South Korean cities they captured. Not to mention Chinese units generated every turn after their intervention in China. China did have a few JS-2's and ISU-152's lurking around, but not nearly as many as I portrayed; their number will be cut down greatly.
As for the terrain, by all means, have a crack at it.
BTW, McMonkey, my Boneparte turn's done, but I can't seem to post on the German Civ site. Is anyone else having this problem?
Not that I know of. Is there some sort of error message?
Can you post there but not attach the file? If you can post I would ask Hstorical Atze who I believe is the modifier and will know who can check such things.
I will have a go at the terrain tonight if I get a chance.
The main difference between the Chinese and North Koreans was their training and military doctrine. The Chinese had formed their own methods during the Civil War and during their war against Japan.
North Korea's army had been trained by the Russians in blitzkrieg style attacks. Until recently I had always wondered how the North Koreans had been transformed into such fierce communist stormtroopers in such a short space of time (1945-50). Then I read how the core of the NK army had fought for many years for the Chinese in the Civil War and had been released by the Chinese to form the backbone of the new NK army!
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