CIV-CITY: Rome... wtf is this game?

[Jonny]

No, it's still here. Unless CC:R gets really good reviews, I'll probably wait for Caesar IV instead...

[asleepathewheel]

CCR

[Skanky Burns]

Credence Clearwater Revival.

[Locutus]

I was a tester for CivCity: Rome, here's my thoughts on the game in case anyone cares. It's a fun little game, probably not the best city builder ever (but I haven't played all that many to be honest so I wouldn't really know), but I enjoyed playing it.

I like the concept of gathering resources to upgrade to a new housing level, that was new to me. The fact that citizens will only walk a limited distance to get what they need makes for some interesting strategy even if the economic model itself isn't horribly complicated (which IMO is a good thing: less is more). Especially upgrading to an Insulae [sic] is just the coolest thing: you can place them on top of existing shops. The highest level of houses are quite hard to achieve and maintain though, it gets a bit tedious to be honest (but fortunately you rarely actually need those to win, you can usually settle for a lower level) -- but maybe that's just because I suck at controlling the flow of goods.

It's cool that they added research as a game element, I don't think (m?)any other city builders have that. I also like how it has controllable disasters -- not sure how common that is in this genre but in the games I've played there either aren't any disasters at all or they're completely random. In CivCity there are things like fires, riots, disease, wild animal attacks -- all of which can be prevented by building the right buildings in the right places. There's also lots of flavour in terms of random events, the Civilopedia (which is very, very detailed and accurate, lots of interesting information on life in ancient Rome), featured buildings and resources, citizen comments, music (which is fantastic!), etc. The game is quite lively: ambient sounds everywhere and it's great how you can follow your citizens go about their daily business (whether inside or outside of buildings). It really feels like you're in charge of a Roman city, something I've seen other city building games do much less well. Even Civilization could probably learn a thing or two from CC:R in this regard.

The military elements are plain crap though, way too simplistic and the military UI sucks donkeyballs. The builder User Interface OTOH is for the most part quite good, it gives you all the information you need and unnecessary clicking is reduced to a minimum (there were still a few minor bugs and issues with the last build I played but that wasn't the version that went gold (not even close) so I hope/assume they fixed most of that). The one thing I thought was still missing were keyboard shortcuts, hopefully they still added those.

The tech tree and wonders in the game feel very civ-esque, the prestige system is roughly based on the score system in Civ (though unlike in Civ it actually has a big impact on gameplay), and the game has the same light-heartedness as the Civ games: some of the comments you'll get from your citizens are quite funny (and certainly sufficiently varied so that they don't get old too fast). Other than that it's a lot more like Caesar (or so I've heard, never got around to playing it) than like Civilization though, it's really a builder game with some of the same flavour as Civ than a merger between Civilization and a builder game as it's advertised to be.

If you're a die-hard city builder, you will definitely want to pick up this game. It's not the most complex or challenging game of its genre, but above all it's fun. If you're a die-hard Civver but not much of a fan of city builder games you should probably skip this one, it just doesn't have enough 'Civ' in it to justify you buying it. If you like city builder games but aren't a hard-core player, I say it should probably depend on what your budget for games is and what other types of games you like, there may well be better titles out there, in this genre or others (now I've played this I certainly plan to give Ceasar IV a try as well). You may want to wait until the price drops a little. Personally wouldn't pay €40 for this but it's definitely worth €20, maybe €25-30 depending on how much was changed between the last build I played and the release version.

[Adagio]

I have played for about an hour, it is a bit fun, but not the best city builder game around. So far all my settlements has remained small, so I haven't seen that much yet (just started on the campaign)
'
The research part so far seems a bit pointless. As far as I have played you've alway got enough money to research everything, and all research is done very fast. In screenshots I've seen, you see a tech-tree kinda like civ (where you can see which techs you get access to by researching the different techs), but I haven't seen that in the game yet. In the game you can only see the techs currently avaliable for research, you can't see what you have researched, and you can't see what other techs you can get access to
I don't like it that you have to research everything all over for each new map you get to play in the campaign. IMHO the campaign would have been better if you only got to do a little research for each game, but all the techs you got in one map would follow you further in the campaign. This could probably give the campaign some more replay-value, while also being a bit more realistic

So far the game is what I expected it to be (I had low hopes for this game), I hope Caesar IV will be better
But I'll reserve my final judgement until I've spent more time with the game

[Lul Thyme]

You guys are talking about Caesar and games that are linked together.
Did you that that the Original Caesar could be linked with Cohort II to fight the battles??
I had both games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(video_game)
"At the same time as Caesar, Impressions developed another Roman-themed game, Cohort 2, a game which allowed the player to direct Ancient Roman battles in a style akin to a crude precursor of the Command & Conquer series. Impressions included a feature in Cohort 2 which allowed players of Caesar to load their saved files and play out the battles from Caesar in Cohort 2. Later, Impressions released an updated version of Caesar which automatically launched a version of Cohort 2 whenever the player engaged in battle. This version was released under the title Caesar Deluxe in 1994."

The main problem with this was that Cohort II sucked.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Adagio
I have played for about an hour, it is a bit fun, but not the best city builder game around. So far all my settlements has remained small, so I haven't seen that much yet (just started on the campaign)
'
The research part so far seems a bit pointless. As far as I have played you've alway got enough money to research everything, and all research is done very fast. In screenshots I've seen, you see a tech-tree kinda like civ (where you can see which techs you get access to by researching the different techs), but I haven't seen that in the game yet. In the game you can only see the techs currently avaliable for research, you can't see what you have researched, and you can't see what other techs you can get access to
I don't like it that you have to research everything all over for each new map you get to play in the campaign. IMHO the campaign would have been better if you only got to do a little research for each game, but all the techs you got in one map would follow you further in the campaign. This could probably give the campaign some more replay-value, while also being a bit more realistic

So far the game is what I expected it to be (I had low hopes for this game), I hope Caesar IV will be better
But I'll reserve my final judgement until I've spent more time with the game

Research becomes more useful in 'full' games, when you actually have to decide between one thing or another thing, because you have a long research tree. The opening campaigns are basically just a simple tutorial (that lasts for a long time... )

[DrSpike]

To cover lack of any real content?

[Kloreep]

From Locutus' review, this game frankly sounds like Caesar III w/ a tech tree thrown in.

Considering I have all of Impression's Caesar III-Emperor era city builders and haven't covered even a quarter of the content in them, I don't think I'll be getting this one anytime soon...

[donarumo]

It is like Caesar III but it really takes it to the next level. First, there is the tech tree which does add an element not found in Impression's games. Next, it is true 3D. Being able to zoom in and out and rotate at will add a level of freedom.

The graphics seem to be better on a number of levels. Not only do the buildings seem more detailed but you can see what's happening in each area and the anmations are great. For instance, you can watch your goat farmer club a goat, skin it, then place the meat on a hook. The butcher then runs down, gets the meet, takes it back and carves it up. Just sitting back and watching give the game a great ant-farm element.

So if you liked Impressions releases, I would recommend CivCity, it takes the genre to the next level. Now, we'll have to see what happens with Caesar IV which, based on the screenshots, looks like it takes it to the next level as well.

[rjwoer]

It's definitely not the best game ever, but I've had fun playing it for a few hours, whenever I force myself to take a break from Warlords.

Life is tough

I have very little experience with city building games, so I don't feel equipped to "review" the game. I don't agree with Gamespy that the graphics are ugly. I heard another player call them "uninspired" and I think that hits closer to the mark.

[Arrian]

Hmm, I may have to pick this up at some point (like when it drops in price ). I enjoyed Caesar III (which had its faults, no doubt!).

-Arrian

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Arrian
Hmm, I may have to pick this up at some point (like when it drops in price ). I enjoyed Caesar III (which had its faults, no doubt!).

-Arrian

Ok, I enjoy SIM CITY and Stronghold

Would this be an investment I would enjoy perhaps?

Thanks, to each their own I would say my good friends

[Adagio]

Am I the only one where targeting is WAY OFF? When running the game in 1280x1024 it's impossible to select the correct building (deleting roads is a nightmare). At 1024x768 it's much easier, but the game often selects the wrong building, but at least deleting roads/buildings is easier

[DrSpike]

I read that the problem goes away if you uninstall the game.

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


Ok, I enjoy SIM CITY and Stronghold

Would this be an investment I would enjoy perhaps?

Thanks, to each their own I would say my good friends

Try Caesar III first, and then decide.
If you're that way inclined, buy it and then return it after a weekend, claiming that the person you bought it for already has it, but it won't be too expensive anyway so I wouldn't worry too much.

[Vesayen]

My brief review: Played about 8 or 9 missions deep. Nothing phenominal, nothing revolutionary. Moderatley fun. NOTHING new here heh. One thing which I really don't like is missions often take place on the same map you have just built... so the mission ends and you start new objectives in the same city. Except you don't keep the gold you built up.... which might not sound important, but it is. I found myself REPETADLY having to restart certain scenarios because it is never clear if the next mission is on the same map. It is VERY easy to build up most of the map while trying to finish this mission, only to have new objectives on the same map in the same mission.... and not have any new places to build, or inherit a failing economy from the previous one.



Is there any way to skip completley past the tutorial campaigns and hit the main campaign?

[snoopy369]

I don't think so. You can play a sandbox game at any point, though, iirc ...

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
Ok, I enjoy SIM CITY and Stronghold

Would this be an investment I would enjoy perhaps?

I found this more fun than I get from SimCity today (whether the original, 3K or 4), but not as much fun as when I first discovered that game. That's because I played it so much I completely burnt out on it. I haven't played any Stronghold games but I've been told this is fairly similar.

I would guess you would probably enjoy CC:R, though I doubt you'll be hooked as badly as you are on Civ Should be good for a few days worth of fun at the very least.

Originally posted by Vesayen
Except you don't keep the gold you built up.... which might not sound important, but it is. I found myself REPETADLY having to restart certain scenarios because it is never clear if the next mission is on the same map. It is VERY easy to build up most of the map while trying to finish this mission, only to have new objectives on the same map in the same mission...

I kind of like the fact that it carries over, though I agree it would probably be a good idea to somehow let you know in advance when it's going to happen. But once you know that maps are carried over, you can start taking it into account by planning ahead, always leaving some space free and by building compact (which is a good idea anyway), certainly for the first mission on a new map. If you do run out of space, you can always move/demolish some stuff. And if you inherit a failing economy you did a bad job to begin with and deserve what you get (Yes, I've been there a few times myself)

And believe me, gold not carrying over was worse, although I agree resetting the treasury is not ideal either. I put some thought into it but couldn't come up with a good solution, it's quite the conundrum...

Is there any way to skip completley past the tutorial campaigns and hit the main campaign?

The tutorial campaign is the main campaign. I thought the later missions in the campaign were mostly quite interesting, but they still introduce new elements right up until the last mission (I think there's 20-25 or so in total).

If you don't care for the campaign, there's quite a few interesting single missions as well (though you miss a significant portion of the game if you don't play the campaign -- well, you wouldn't be missing it if you're not enjoying it, but you know what I mean...)

[Joseph]

I'm playing it, and I like it so far.

[Asher]

Obviously the beta testers for this game sucked.

I can't even run the installer. The installer crashes on me with a very vague, generic InstallShield error right at the beginning.

[DrSpike]

Sounds like you were lucky.

[dregor]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Sounds like you were lucky.

Could you please post more negative comments without any coherent thoughts to back them up? Pretty please? It's not annoying in the least.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by dregor


Could you please post more negative comments without any coherent thoughts to back them up? Pretty please? It's not annoying in the least.

Like all good things, they are best in moderation

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by dregor


Could you please post more negative comments without any coherent thoughts to back them up? Pretty please? It's not annoying in the least.

Gladly.

Please don't play this trash - there are lots of really good games out at the moment and it's really best you focus your efforts there.

[Vesayen]

The purpose of the game appears to be(after finishing 8 or 9 missions) trying to squeeze as many neccesary buildings into as small a space as possible.

This does not make for good gameplay.

The lack of economic information such as taxes per building, production etc makes realistic planning an exercise in futility.


This game has the depth of a puddle, it just took me time to realize that.

[Blake]

I find that fiscally, at first it's challenging but then it becomes trivial - while there is trade in the game, unlike in Caesar III, trade is not the main source of income, instead it's trivial to tax your way to unspendable bankrolls - and that's with paying everyone maximum wages for the happiness boost.

With little financial challenge it seems the main exercise is that of cramming in many buildings altough this is not unineresting. Anyone who is good at Caesar III (and future iterations) will know that in those games the key to effective housing is loops to force the workers to visit all the houses and so on, which is really quite gamey. In CC:Rome the houses "get" what they need which means you don't need to make weird loops or anything, but it has it's on strange side effects - like since houses have a get radius, other buildings can't have a "range",

The population and employment model is quite fun, your city starts with vagrants loitering at the town hall, if you build something (like a farm) then some of the vagrants become employed there - if there's no housing for them, they sleep on the floor of their workplace. Only the employed can afford to live in housing - so if there's no jobs near a house, it will remain an unoccupied shack. In CC:Rome you always have full employment - but you have to work on housing all the workers (they don't work so good after sleeping on the floor of their shop...).

So basically, a man gets a job, then looks for a nearby shack to live in - so the housing needs to be near the jobs, again unlike Caesar III (where it was a concept of "access" to the labor pool), in CC:Rome it's practical (and quite nessecary) to have housing slums near the industry which supplies the upper-crust with the needed goods and services, it's impractial to have everyone living like kings - it's a pryamid with a few rich on top and looots of poor at the bottom.

Anyway initially I wondered was was with the sausage-fest since all my citizens were men, it turns out that once your housing evolves a few levels the man will seek out a woman - this is done by going to a temple, where a priest will summon a woman (through the wall, of course) and marry her to the man (at least once you research marriage... before then I assume he just says "okay man, here's your woman, have fun"). Take the man and woman and add a bed (made by a carpenter) and you get a child and when you click on them they giggle in a most extremely disturbing way, like the girl-child sounds like a burly man trying to giggle like a small girl (sound effects at Firefly, I'm onto you!). Now anyway, when it was just a man the man had to both work and collect water, food and olive oil for his house, but once he gets a wife she will be the full time stuff-gatherer, giving the man more time to work (or play... I'm not sure which) but it's fortunate anyway because the houses keep wanting more and more stuff (like bread and fruit) so the man would be spending all day gathering stuff from shops... eventually if you give the family enough stuff (like piped water) they want a slave and the slave then gets to be gatherer-b*tch and once housing is that evolved the slave/wife will go a lot further for stuff. One funny side effect is that the slave will fullfill wants for the house like "Take a bath" and entertainment so you have bathhouses full of slaves taking baths instead of the mans/womans... and the slave will go listen to music and stuff... lucky roman slaves. Actually another odity is that men keep their original jobs, if possible, so I've ended up with a goat herder living in a palace.... there's no concept of how good a job is.


Unfortunately the warehouse/granary disitribution system seems to be a bit weird... maybe I just havn't fully mastered it yet (the UI is rubbish), but it seemed that the Caesar III system worked better even if it was a bit gamey.

Combat is ugly. The UI is terrible and the soldiers often seem to prefer sleeping in rather than marching out to combat (there seems to be some kind of ritual to get them to consistently leave the fort...) this wouldn't be so bad except it appears there's no walls so the enemies can quickly march over to your city and start wrecking stuff.
When marching and in combat , legions don't stay in formation, instead they pretty much always end up "Blob-moding" when you end up with a big blob of soldiers in one place with swords and limbs flailing around in all directions. Caesar III was lightyears ahead in making the combat look remotely realistic.

On the whole CC:Rome is far less polished, but also less a lot less gamey, than Caesar III (both are pretty much equally frustrating until you learn all the obscure tricks, altough the CC:Rome tricks seem to be less obscure). It does have some innovation and depth.

[NeoFax]

Too bad this game sucks! I had higher expectations of it. First it is virtually unplayable unless you have 1gb of memory or a newer GPU. I have a AIW 7500 and 512mb of memory playing on lowest settings and half way thru the game it is so slow I have to save reboot just to be able to play at an acceptable speed. Next, the games AI is so bad it is laughable. Your plebes just walk right past what the household needs to upgrade to a newer house. It is if they don't even know the building is there and the whole change their time so the have more play time is ridiculous. Also, no hotkeys in todays videogame wasteland is deplorable. I had hotkeys in videogames like 8 years ago. If you have never played any City Builder games, STAY AWAY! This is not what good city builders are like. I have played almost every Impression games from Caesar 2 to Pharaoh(my favorite) the greek one to Children of the Nile(what a waste). Can't wait for Caesar IV. This is where your money should go. Yet another game makes its way to the videogame wasteland.....