Who will be the CMN(s)?
Yes, let's get started!
No, let's have more discussion.
There hasn't been any posts in this forum in three days. This is a summary of the polls and discussion so far for ACDGIV.
a) SPDG
b) SMACX
c) SMAniaC mod with AI boosted and assisted by CMN
d) faction played: Believer
f) opponents: Gaians, Hive, Morgan, Pirates, Spartans, University
Game setup:
Church StructureCode:______________________________________ Preference.. | Settings Map size | Standard Ocean | Average Erosion | Average Life | Average Clouds | Average Difficulty | Transcend Transcend | Yes Conquest | Yes Diplomatic | Yes Economic | Yes Cooperative | Yes Do or Die | Yes Flexible start | Yes Tech stag | No Spoils of war | No Blind research | No Intense riv | No No survey | Yes No scatter | No No rnd events | No Time Warp | No Iron man | No Rand person | No Rand social | No g) secret missions h) game structure:
The Lord’s Conclave has three organizational levels:
1. The Clergy
2. The Episcopate
3. The Curia
1. The Clergy consists of all the people participating in the ACDG.
Any clergyman may, via posting a poll, propose clerical law concerning the faction as a whole, including establishing and changing the tax rate of on the bases. The Clergy may not use polls to usurp the rights of the Episcopate. A proposal becomes clerical law if:
a) The YEA votes are bigger than the NAY votes
b) The number of YEA votes reaches a certain quorum. The quorum is 50% of the votes in the last election for the Pontifex Maximus (cfr infra).
c) The poll has been open for 2 days
2. The Episcopate consists of the Bishops. Bishops are base governors, and have the right to control of everything in their base screens, placement of workers and creation of specialists, facility and unit construction, build queues, and the movement and activities of all units supported by their bases.
3. The Curia is the administrative apparatus of the Conclave.
The head of the Curia and of the faction as a whole is the Pontifex Maximus (in short: Pontifex). S/he is the turnplayer, or may appoint someone to play the turn instead. The Curia is divided into several Dicasteries, each with a specific function.
4. Religious Orders may be formed at any time by any member of the Clergy.
a) An Order is a group of ideologically close individuals, who are striving to achieve their political and other goals through the Order's unified power.
b) Orders can control property, through bases controlled by members of the Order. An Order gets control of a base by getting one of their members elected as Bishop of that base.
c) Joining an Order is voluntary.
d) A base can shift among Orders if the Bishop of that base changes Order or a new Bishop is elected.
e) Each Order shall maintain its own membership lists. It has the power to refuse admission to its roster and to expel members.
f) An Order may choose to keep their ideology secret.
g) For glory and advantage, an Order may request a secret quest from the CMN.
5. A Dicastery controls a specific game function of the faction (e.g. military units, research, social engineering, HQ governance). The creation, dissolution and function of Dicasteries are governed by clerical law. The head of a Dicastery is allowed to give orders to the turnplayer on his or her specific field.
The hierarchy of authority is as follows:
For factional matters:
1. Factional laws accepted by the Clergy
2. The competent Dicastery head
3. The Pontifex Maximus
4. The turnplayer
For Episcopal matters:
1. The bishop
2. The competent Dicastery head
3. The Pontifex Maximus
4. The turnplayer
Factional law accepted by the clergy and orders by the bishops have the highest authority. If no relevant law has been passed, no orders have been given, or the law or orders need to be worked out in further detail, the competent Dicastery head may give orders. If no orders from the Dicastery have been given, the Pontifex (or his/her appointee) may use his or her best judgement during turnplaying.
Elections
Every 15 M.Y. two official polls are held in which all the members of the Clergy may vote. They are open for 2 days.
The first poll is the election of the Pontifex Maximus at the end of each month. Every clergyman may announce their candidacy for the Pontificate. A candidate must gain 50%+1 (as always, rounded down) of the votes to be elected. If no one gains that number of votes in the first round, a second round is held between the two candidates with the most votes.
In the second poll the Clergy must announce or confirm their support of a Religious Order. Each Order is alloted a number of votes which is the sum of the votes received in this poll plus the number of bases governed by their members ("points").
An Order may bid its points toward control of a Dicastery. Two or more Orders my combine their points. If there is only one bid, the winner loses a point and designates the head of that Dicastery. If there are more than one bid, the winner loses one more point than the second place bid and designates the Dicastery. The losing bidder(s) retains all points and may bid on another Dicastery.
Episcopal Structure
Each person can choose to live in a specific base in the faction. People who do not specify a base are assumed to live in our headquarters base. The Curia live at the headquarters base.
Each base and its surroundings forms a diocese. Only people living in a certain base are allowed to elect the Bishop for the corresponding diocese. The only exception is the Holy See, our headquarters, which is always governed by a member of the Curia.
The citizens of several bases can unite their dioceses into one bigger Ecclesiastical province (in short: province), and rule it as if it were one diocese, with one bishop election, and factional law applying to the province as a whole. The citizens of a base can at a later date always decide to leave the province.
There can at most only be as many bases in a province as there are people living in that province.
If a base or the province containing the base has been founded for at least 15 M.Y., and it has at least three citizens, those citizens can vote with a 50%+1 majority to forbid migration of certain people to their base or province.
Last edited by vyeh; April 10, 2006 at 12:37.
Who will be the CMN(s)?
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Yes, let's get started!
Regarding CMN, I would be willing to set the game up, regarding map and AI starting positions. I could still participate in the ACDG then - I just would keep my mouth shut in exploration discussions.
Of course I couldn't assist the AI midgame then.
Yes, that is precisely why I asked who is the CMN.
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
There seems to be a lack of players currently.
Maybe we shouldn't start a demogame at all ?
no sig
They may be on spring break. Let's wait a week.Originally posted by PJayTycy
There seems to be a lack of players currently.
Maybe we shouldn't start a demogame at all ?
Once we agree on a game, we can (with the moderator's permission) put a short post on the other AC forums. That may attract other players.
If Maniac doesn't believe we need CMN assistance and no one wants to just be the CMN, we can forego the CMN assistance. For that matter, we could generate a random map (so Maniac can be involved in the exploration). I threw in the AI boosted and assisted because Humphrey on the "modified v. vanilla" thread was interested in "SMAniaC + boosted". He didn't say "assisted" and Maniac had pointed out earlier that the boosted AI's seem to be quite capable of holding up, so I think we can forego the assistance.
I can prolly CMN this one - although I want to participate in an SPDG, this currently proposed one just isn't turning my crank
Btw, Googlie, you said in the other thread you'd prefer Morgan more. There's nothing preventing you to form some corporate faction within the Conclave. Didn't eg Endymion have something like that?
Well, I am sorry to point it out, but it has to be said.
In this poll
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=150577
I count presently:
6 for SMAniaC
9 for Vanila SMAX
So it looks like vanila has preference.
The 'two or more of the above' were for SMAniaC, so it's actually SMAniaC 8 - vanilla 9. But yeah, vanilla SMAX still has a slight majority. However I don't see any of the pro-vanilla voters busy in setting up a DG. If they want one, they'll have to organize it themselves of course...
(the result of that poll is why I haven't bothered much anymore with DG discussion and polling btw - sorry vyeh)
There seem to be moderate enthusiasm for a new DG now.
So either the game will start now with limited members and later it will grow, as new people join or we still discuss it.
Both ways have advantages and disadvantages.
We could start to play and keep everything open, so more people get interested.
CMN
In a few days Darsnan should be around.
How about asking him to setup the game?
Unless he wants to join the Order
Good point - and there's nothing to prevent the conclave (B's) from running Dem/FM/Wealth if they so wish - it's Knowledge that's their aversionOriginally posted by Maniac
Btw, Googlie, you said in the other thread you'd prefer Morgan more. There's nothing preventing you to form some corporate faction within the Conclave. Didn't eg Endymion have something like that?
Be sorta like the CEO of the Vatican Bank getting elected Pope? No?
Originally posted by mart7x5
Well, I am sorry to point it out, but it has to be said.
In this poll
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=150577
I count presently:
6 for SMAniaC
9 for Vanila SMAX
So it looks like vanila has preference.Please note that the poll did NOT produce a majority. The current results are:Originally posted by Maniac
The 'two or more of the above' were for SMAniaC, so it's actually SMAniaC 8 - vanilla 9. But yeah, vanilla SMAX still has a slight majority. However I don't see any of the pro-vanilla voters busy in setting up a DG. If they want one, they'll have to organize it themselves of course...
(the result of that poll is why I haven't bothered much anymore with DG discussion and polling btw - sorry vyeh)
6 for SMAniaC
4 for boosted, assisted vanilla
3 for boosted, non-assisted vanilla
2 for non-boosted, assisted vanilla
2 for two or more of the above
1 not playing
When I saw the poll did not produce a majority, I posted a thread "Discussion about SMAniaC in ACDGIV" and begged for comments from people opposed to SMAniac ("I'd like to hear from you and particularly welcome reasons why people do not want to play SMAniaC.")
At this point, there are two responses from Player99 and fed1943 and both are IN FAVOR of SMAniaC.
Please note that SMAniaC received a plurality (the most votes of any of the choices). It is very dangerous to assume that all the people voting for the vanilla choices (boosted or not, assisted or not) would be willing to play any vanilla game. Conceivably, there could be people who would prefer playing a boosted vanilla game, but would prefer an unassisted SMAniaC to an assisted vanilla.
Since SMAniaC received the most votes and most of the people who are putting forth the creative effort are willing to try SMAniaC, we should go with SMAniaC.
Last edited by vyeh; April 12, 2006 at 14:19.
I am warming to the proposal re the Believers and of course I will be in: it would be a kinda of cardinal sin not to be.
On the ISDG 2012 team at the heart of CiviLIZation
Do we have a CMN?
Otherwise, we can generate a random map.
Still the best way is to have a CMN setup everything. Boosted AI have to be also properly placed on the map too, in my experience often super AI (with improved faction files) when placed by the game itself on some starting location screw things up big.
Yes, let's keep everything open.Originally posted by mart7x5
There seem to be moderate enthusiasm for a new DG now.
So either the game will start now with limited members and later it will grow, as new people join or we still discuss it.
Both ways have advantages and disadvantages.
We could start to play and keep everything open, so more people get interested.
Once the game is up and running it will attract more action, especially, if they don't have to download and install the SMAniaC modification.
I like the idea of Googlie CMN'ing the game.
vhey's proposed rules seem ok so long as the majority (democracy) have final say.
'I kind of like the idea of having some control over a base or two.'
Let's get it set up and running.
I'm not sure how to count the folks who wanted SMAniaC, but a majority of the folks [those who wanted vanilla] (7) wanted AI boosted vanilla, and (6) CMN assisted vanilla.
Build it, and they will come.
Mead
Let's be precise:Originally posted by Mead
I'm not sure how to count the folks who wanted SMAniaC, but a majority of the folks [those who wanted vanilla] (7) wanted AI boosted vanilla, and (6) CMN assisted vanilla.Mead
6 want SMAniaC
4 want AI boosted and CMN assisted
3 want AI boosted and not CMN assisted
2 want AI not boosted, but CMN assisted
and 2 (fed 1943 and Humphrey) want SMAniaC with boosted AI.
So, even if we combine categories (and in an earlier post, I noted the danger of assuming that someone who wants a boosted, but no CMN assistance, would accept boosted and assisted), we would get something like this:
8 want some version of SMAniaC
7 want some version of AI boosted vanilla
6 want some version of AI assisted by CMN
So some version of SMAniaC has a plurality.
I also posted a thread inviting people who disagreed with SMAniaC to state their oppostion:
http://apolyton.net/forums//showthre...hreadid=150696
The last post was April 4th and both responses were in favor of SMAniaC.
So let's not disenfranchise the plurality, when the plurality seems the most vocal.
1. It is vyeh.Originally posted by Mead
vhey's proposed rules seem ok so long as the majority (democracy) have final say.
2. The proposed rules were posted at the top of the thread and in the poll on this thread have received 5 votes to 1 vote (and I think the negative vote was Illuminatus, who seemed to want some discussion on the question of CMN, not on the rules.) So I'd say the majority has had the final say.
3. These rules are more than my rules. They are the result of a lot of discussion on another thread. I made compromises to build a consensus.
Last edited by vyeh; April 15, 2006 at 11:07.
Can we get someone to agree to be CMN? That seems to be the next step in getting ACDGIV going.
I'd rather participate as a player than CMN itOriginally posted by Mead
I like the idea of Googlie CMN'ing the game.
Mead
But although I'd like to give SMAniaC mod a go, I'm not excited by playing the Conclave.
Personally, I never did see Miriam & the Believers (aka Conclave) as being Catholic wannabees - the "Evangelical Fire" church upbringing, and her Unity position as "Psych Chaplain" to me don't gell with a heirarchy built on the Rome model
So I'm having trouble dealing with both a modded tech tree and abilities, as well as a (to me) alien infrastructure that's compounded by being, to my mind, not at all what the game intends
If the decision is to stick with SMAniaC mod, and play the Conclave, then i'll happily set up the game and sit it out
If another SMAniaC faction is chosen, or a vanilla SMAC one (other than the Believers, as it'll likely take the same structure as that proposed for the Conclave), then I'd like to play
From my understanding the game is SMAniaC and it will be the Conclave, so it sounds like Googlie will be setting this one up (and if he wants some help playtesting I'll volunteer for that). However, if things change and Googlie wants to play, then I will set up the game.Originally posted by Googlie
If the decision is to stick with SMAniaC mod, and play the Conclave, then i'll happily set up the game and sit it out
If another SMAniaC faction is chosen, or a vanilla SMAC one (other than the Believers, as it'll likely take the same structure as that proposed for the Conclave), then I'd like to play
D
And if Dale DOES choose self exile, then 'poly just lost another one of their star gaming contributors, and that's a pity, since this is still a gaming site.
-=Vel=-
Personally, I never did see Miriam & the Believers (aka Conclave) as being Catholic wannabees - the "Evangelical Fire" church upbringing, and her Unity position as "Psych Chaplain" to me don't gell with a heirarchy built on the Rome model
I must say that I agree with Googlie. Although it is Maniac's "alternate" faction , it doesn't feel right to me either.
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Well personally I'd be willing to participate in a DG with about any faction if that means more people participate. The reasons why I suggested the Conclave was because during ACDG3 there were a couple people who already wanted to start another single player DG, and the Believers were their suggested faction. It's also, besides the Cult and aliens, the only faction that hasn't been played by anyone in any DG, so it's guaranteed to be something new for everyone.
However personally I'd vote for about any faction if there was a majority for that. In fact, from a test game I think the Conclave might not be that perfect for a DG, as they have a specific SE setting which I found is best for them in about all situations. Of course this also counts for other factions to some degree, that there is "one best" strategy to follow for them. And for a DG, the more unpredetermined a faction is strategywise, the better. In case anyone's interested, this is according to me how open the different factions are regarding SE setting and research path to follow.
Conclave
Techwise: open
SEwise: relatively closed
Gaians
Techwise: closed
SEwise: closed
Hive
Techwise: open
SEwise: closed
Morgan
Haven't got a clue
Peacekeepers
Techwise: open
SEwise: open
Spartans
Techwise: open
SEwise: open
University
Techwise: open
SEwise: open
Angels
Haven't got a clue
Consciousness
Techwise: open
SEwise: open
Drones
Techwise: open
SEwise: open
Cult
Techwise: closed
SEwise: closed
Pirates
Techwise: mediocre
SEwise: open
Caretakers
Haven't got a clue
Usurpers
Haven't got a clue
Bree
Techwise: closed
SEwise: closed
Genesis
Techwise: open
SEwise: relatively closed
Ghosts
Haven't got a clue yet
Atlantis
Techwise: mediocre
SEwise: mediocre
Republic
Haven't got a clue yet
Templar
Techwise: open
SEwise: open
Empaths
Techwise: open
SEwise: open
I'd be willing to CMN btw.
There are currently 5 people interested in playing. If not more people show up, I don't think it's worth to invest a lot of time into this.
I won't join because the civ4 demo game and the c4:ac mod already take a lot of time.
no sig
Well in case anyone's interested, I've generated a few random maps, and I think I have one that could be quite nice.
Maniac, maybe you could email the "quite nice" map to Googlie and Darsnan and get their take on it.
If they like it, then I guess placing the factions on the map would be the next step.
I am still interested but with just 5 or so participants so it is hard to justify.
Last edited by Hercules; May 6, 2006 at 18:20.
On the ISDG 2012 team at the heart of CiviLIZation
There was a lot of interest immediately after the end of ACDGIII. I think we will attract players if we start playing.
The only other alternative is to give up on demo games entirely. It is hard to imagine that we will get more participants by having a quiet forum.
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