Star Wars scenario... no, seriously!

[Alinestra Covelia]

Yes. *sigh* It's true.

Now the CD drive has been fixed (a two-stage process involving a fist and then a screwdriver) it's Civ2ToT time again.

The scenario is largely going to be a lark but I do hope to have a neat little multiplayable game at the end of it.

Graphics will be stol...- er, adapted from existing Lucasarts games and media material. Sounds might be more difficult but I'll see what I can rustle up.

The feel of the game will be deep space, conquering worlds one by one. Most of the worlds will be single square islands in an ocean of space, but I like the idea of four-square planets that measure up to gas giants. I might just use that for black holes or galaxy arrays or something. Most of the fighting will be done using fleets of starships against each other, although I'm hoping to tweak combat strengths so that it's more effective to use marine-style units to attack from ships, rather than bombarding with the ships themselves. Starfighters will be little aircraft units that buzz around trying to sink ships.

As far as time periods go, I fully plan to collect images of units and things incorporating all six Star Wars movies and quite a few of the flight sim games. I don't know how I will use events or batch files to simulate moving from age to age, but hopefully that won't be necessary. The images and units that I gather might not all be used in the modpack, allowing others to use them for their own scenarios. Leader portraits will naturally be changed.

Tribes currently might include: Republic (use Jedi etc.), Separatists (use droid units, etc.), Neutrals (all the benign alien units), and Underworld (Jabba and Co Ltd). Later on, it would include Empire and Rebels.

There is no assurance I will complete this scenario but I do intend to give it a good stabbing and see what trickles out.

Wish me luck.

[Leonidas]

Best of luck.

When dealing with any sort of malfunctioning electronic equipment I follow the "Layman's Guide to Electronic Repair".

If a piece of equipment is not working, then:

1) Shake it

2) kick it

3) Drop it; or

4) Leave it sitting on the balcony in the cold for two weeks.

Usually, a combination of one or more of the above actions seems to do the trick...

[Arthedain]

Hmm, you should check out Kobayashi's 9-tile planets, they're awesome! To be honest, I thought of a similiar idea tonight, though it would only include the Clone War.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Well, Arthedain, I'm open to collaboration if you are. Right now I'm capturing the unit sprites using my trusty version of Paint Shop Pro, so if you'd like, we can swap units.

I'm no artist but I'm okay at isolating pictures from larger files.

[N35t0r]

How do they end up?

because I generally find ripped units inferior in quality to the best alternatives availiable...

[Arthedain]

Hmm, actually I suck at making units. But if you want to we can have a collaboration of some sort. Btw, I have a map of the star wars galaxy if you need one (large jpg).

[Paddy]

certainly sounds interesting

[kobayashi]

Dear Mr. Alinestra Covelia,

what do you mean by "...no, seriously!" ?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Kobayashi,

Surely you have been aware that I have tried many, many times to write scenarios but then my goldfish-like attention span moved on to different things? And that I often start threads like this only to have them fall ignominiously out of sight like the cargo of a careless birthday stork?

That's what I mean by "no, seriously!"

Oh, by the way, I went to Civ Fanatics yesterday to look for your sage advice but the pages were mixed up and I got 404'd quite often. I was especially looking for a page about the barbarian units, because I wanted to make sure the barbarians in this scenario would be using sensible units (e.g., Z-95 starfighters and maybe the odd Corellian Corvette or Dreadnaught, and not an Eclipse-class Star Destroyer!). I really need your advice on that (as well as the tech advance slots) so if you still have those findings, it would really help!

And N35t0R, my units are not excellent by any means. Here are a few that I'm working with. They have all been reduced to the component size by isolating the picture and then resizing to 64 or fewer pixels in width. Some units here I did NOT rip, and simply used from somewhere else.


Top row: Settlers (actually a Capt. Kirk picture), Evaporators (I multiplied a preexisting sprite), Gamorrean (probably stolen from Dark Trooper), Bossk Trandoshan (online), Clone Trooper (online), Stormtrooper (DF), Fleet Regiment (DF), musketeer slot, Dark Trooper (DF).

Second row: Combat Droid (online), Jawa (preexisting), Ree Yee (DF), Battle Droid (online), AT-AP (online), Republic Tank (online), Rebel troops (online).

Third row: two Darth Vaders (online), Missile Gunboat (from TIE Fighter), TIE Fighter (preexisting), TIE Bomber (preexisting), TIE Interceptor (preexisting), Assault Gunboat (X Wing vs TIE Fighter), TIE Advanced (online), TIE Defender (preexisting).

Fourth row: Jedi Assault Cruiser, through the various classes of Star Destroyer (Victory, Imperator, Super, and Eclipse). All taken from online. Droid fighter, also online.

[Alinestra Covelia]

As you can see, the ripped ones tend to fare worse than those which are custom made. The TIE Advanced is a very good example of this compared to its compatriots.

The last unit on the last row probably best illustrates the limitations of ripping, actually. It's supposed to be a droid fighter, and this is what it looks like:

[kobayashi]

Well since you put it that way and are in no way belittling space scenarios, the civfan server was being upgraded or something but things should be ok in a few days. S-leage has got many of the same reference items including my 'getting units right from the start'.

Although for matters barbarian, i suggest you have a look at william keenan's barbarian paper, which is the definitive resource.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Thanks for the tip, Kobayashi! No, I wasn't belittling space scenarios - just my own scenmaking ability, which richly deserves a kick in the arse.

N35t0r and Arthedain, any feedback on the graphics? Especially wrt the Star Wars galaxy map, Art?

[N35t0r]

Well, I'd recommend bugging Fairline (or some other unit ace) to draw you some of them, but if you're not sure if you'll finish this then I'd refrain from doing so until it reaches beta stage...

I'm sure I'd be able to do do some tie-advanced, parting from the existing interceptor and defender, but not before the holidays (about 5 weeks from now).

[Alinestra Covelia]

Yes, I have no idea whether this will reach the beta stage, so let's wait until then. I'll keep ripping in the rough and ready sprites and do what I can.

Kobayashi: SLeague seems to be down too. I remember your tutorial for nine-tile planets idea (I think it utilized the mountains/hills/forests tiling plus the coast) but is there any online resource that still has it?

[Arthedain]

The units are nice. Sure, they're not Fairline style, but hey, they're converted, so I think they're good.
The map I have is 10.8 MB so I can't post it here.

But I found the link after some searching:
http://216.119.98.205/swgrp/images/s...erse_large.jpg

Enjoy!

[Harry Tuttle]

Ali, if you'd like some help with the units I can help. Sad to say it but I actually have read all the original universe books and a few of the crappy "plant & pain people" books.

I would suggest leaving out the units from the comic series where Luke went to the Dark Side. They're really just junk with no background. I'd stick to the movies and go from there.

Oh yeah, please include Thrawn. He's the shiznit.

[curtsibling]

Did you know that the Imperial Star Destoyer was designed by a woman?

Even though I deplore the tone of these new clownshoe SW movies,
I do love to geek out on the non-canon expanded universe data!

[Alinestra Covelia]

Thanks for the link, Arthedain. Prior to seeing that universe map, I was planning on going with the (extremely outdated) Star Wars: Supremacy maps (known as "Rebellion" in the USA).

Harry Tuttle: say no more! I am a devoted fan of Thrawn ever since I read the Thrawn Trilogy and even got round to reading the Hand of Thrawn duology afterwards. I plan to include everybody's favorite blueskinned humanoid alien Grand Admiral in some form or another. If there are any units you think ought to be included, post them and we'll put heads together.

Curtsibling: The ISD was designed by Lira Blissex (I think that's her name) but apparently Kevin J. Anderson decided to have the same thing designed by Qwi Kux or whatever her name is. The tott who designed the Death Star and Sun Crusher but was apparently too stupid to realize that they were weapons of mass destruction and not weather-observation stations. *sigh*

I think the ship designs and unit designs for the Old Republic are very interesting, and it would be fun to have a "vie for power in space" scenario set with droids and stormtroopers fighting it out.

I'm going to have to find some way of including a cannon fodder unit that's mottled brown and has eyes on stalks, too.


My current thinking is that there will be three main domains of units: starships, starfighters, and ground troops. Each domain will have at least two tiers for the really major powers (the minor powers, e.g. the Underworld, will either have duff units or will acquire the low-tier units through research).

So the Empire would have:

Stormtroopers for offense/defense.
Research Fleet Troopers for defense only.
Research AT-ST for offense to replace Stormtroopers.
Research Dark Troopers for strong defense and decent attack.
Research AT-AT for offense.

Whereas the Rebels might have:

Rebel Infantry for defense.
Rebel Commando for offense.
Mon Cal Infantry for strong defense.
Wookie Infantry for strong offense. Etc.

Likewise, the TIE series of craft will be very hierarchical:

TIE Fighter
TIE/I for superiority, TIE/B for attack
TIE/A for superiority, Assault Gunboat for attack
TIE/D for superiority, Missile Gunboat for attack

I'm thinking of having TIEs never become obsolete, but balancing the more powerful ones with very high cost increases. After all, the Empire mothballed TIE/A, TIE/D, and Missile Gunboat because of funding problems, even though they were very feasible units. The player should have a similar conundrum on their hands. In a pinch, with corruption rampant and the Rebels everywhere, you'd probably rush a few TIE/Fs just to keep the skies safe rather than wait two years for your TIE/D squadron to come online.

Superweapons like the Death Star and Eclipse class Star Destroyer (which I'm only including because it's very large and therefore fun) will probably only be one-offs. The player probably shouldn't be able to build them. They'll just be made available once through events.

The Separatists would still be around as a nuisance faction, with droid warriors and outdated Assault Tanks. Neutrals would have Jawas and Banthas and Gungans oh my. The Old Republic would likewise be around, with clone troopers trying to stave off the inevitable.

Each civ would have essential characters who cannot be disbanded or bribed. If the character is ever killed then a disastrous "obsolete" tech is awarded that civ, which essentially shuts down various wonders, units, and other things to make winning that much harder for them. This is a direct reflection of the loss of leadership and demoralization that this would cause. However, perhaps we could make it so that some units can only be built after such a thing happens. I'm all for things like a Thrawn unit being made available only after Palpatine bites the dust, for example.

Sorry, that's a lot to read. I'll be quiet now and get to work.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Kobayashi: SLeague seems to be down too. I remember your tutorial for nine-tile planets idea (I think it utilized the mountains/hills/forests tiling plus the coast) but is there any online resource that still has it?

Its used more or less in its entirety in my Stargate SG-1 scenario. So you can get it from there.

[Alinestra Covelia]

There might also be a submarine quality which we'll add to certain units to make them "stealth" attack units.

The TIE/Phantom would be an obvious candidate for this, although I don't know how well that would work with a fighter jet template.

Another one that could work with would be a Vorknyxx Shuttle (as used by Thrawn), a Vorknyxx Corvette (as used by Zaarin), and maybe a Vorknyxx Star Destroyer (as used by Admiral Dorja in the Hand of Thrawn books).

[:) Smiley]

one of my gripes with Supremacy/Rebellion was how both sides had similar units with different names. A Star Wars scenario would be best with asymettric warfare.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Success of sorts.

I have succeeded in finding Kobayashi's excellent Stargate Scenario, and with a bit of reverse engineering, I have succeeded in putting together a nine-square planet. The results are below.

I have not changed any other terrain types, but I remember from a previous aborted SW scen that the single square terrain is much easier.

The game appears to have three or possibly four such terrain types that can give you nice nine-square planets: rivers, hills, forests, and mountains.

My thinking is for Star Wars, the main things that want to be very large would be A) black holes, B) decorate galaxy swirls, such as that which might denote The Bright Center Of The Universe, and possibly C) Coruscant.

I tried C) first. Below, you can see Emperor Palpatine hosting a toga party at his villa. A Dark Trooper has arrived by way of stretch ISD, and a common or garden Stormtrooper has left his VSD in orbit in case he has to make a quick getaway. The drugs that they're all taking are making them hallucinate new constellations in the night sky, including Orca the Spacefaring Whale.

[kobayashi]

just a note of caution- The Stargate Gas planets are only half planets as I did not want to squander too many of the single terrain squares.

[:) Smiley]

There are four sets of terrain that can be amalgamated - rivers, mountains, forests, and hills.

However, with a little creativity you can eke out additional multi-tiles using the linear elements of those four above sets (which aren't used in the 9 tiles)

[Arthedain]

Whales in space.. WOW!

Like what you did to Coruscant Alinestra. And I hope you can use the map somewhat. I'm really looking forward to this scen.


Edit: Mind sharing the graphics for Coruscant?

[our_man]

Although for matters barbarian, i suggest you have a look at william keenan's barbarian paper, which is the definitive resource.

I don't know about this. I followed all the steps in this, word-by-word, in my 'How Few Remain' scenario, and it didn't work e.g. even though a tribe had been awarded Mobile Warfare, sea-going barbarians still appeared.

[Alinestra Covelia]

In this case, sea going barbarians is not going to be a problem. In fact, they'll be a benefit, if I can put a Transport or Corvette or (at best) Dreadnought in that slot for them to terrorize star systems.

Actually, on second thoughts I think Coruscant would be better served as being a four-square planet instead. We could make the remaining nine-square planets into a galaxy spiral (to signify the center of the map), and maybe a black hole situation (as per the Maw Installation with Admiral Daala... who will in this game actually be good).

Any thoughts on how to handle the Death Star? In an ideal world, we'd have a situation where each time the Death Star attacks a planet, the computer can activate an event that would transform that planet tile into a Rubble or Asteroids tile (the same way Alderaan was reduced to a rapidly expanding cloud of dust). This could be tricky if there's a city on the tile, though. And factoring in a nine- or four-square planet could be weird. Would it really take four shots to destroy Coruscant? ANd what happens if you have a wonky looking 75% of a planet hanging around like Pac Man with a bunch of asteroids in the mouth?

Finally, I am wondering about making available a hyperspace map that would sit on top of the existing galaxy map. Is there any way to reduce the cost of movement to something like 1/5 or 1/10 for hyperspace map squares? They would have to be the same type of square as the normal map (in other words, mostly ocean).

The hyperspace might work like the system in X Wing Alliance, where you have Navigation Buoys (actually computer holograms showing which lanes are safe to travel) at various places around the galaxy. Transporter points could be Nav Buoys placed frequently near the center of the galaxy, and then more and more sparsely as you get further out (which would explain why the Rebels could so effectively hide from the Empire in the Outer Rim).

Interdictor Cruisers (which prevent hyperspace travel) could be tricky to implement. One solution might be that all units have to enter and exit hyperspace within one turn or be lost forever, but IC's are an exception - they are able to hang around in hyperspace. If we make the hyperspace map a map of very narrow sea channels criss crossing the map, then this could work. You could just plunk down a single IC and it would block all access. (Of course there would have to be a rule of some sort that you can't initiate combat in hyperspace, which probably just becomes unworkable.)

[Alinestra Covelia]

Does Civ2Map work with Civ2 ToT? I tried loading a map by clicking on a ToT .sav and the mapedit didn't like it.

Then I tried making a very simple map in the mapedit and loading it from ToT, and that similarly didn't work.

Edit: another way round my lack of a ToT map editor is to edit rivers directly. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly how to do that. I think I have the relevant software: CivEngineer. Does anybody recall how to place rivers in-game?

[:) Smiley]

Death Star turning planets into different terrain is not practical- you'd have to have seperate events and units for each potential target.

[beingofone]

I usually only play historical scenarios but I love Star Wars.
I hope you can kick this one out.

Each civ would have essential characters who cannot be disbanded or bribed. If the character is ever killed then a disastrous "obsolete" tech is awarded that civ, which essentially shuts down various wonders, units, and other things to make winning that much harder for them. This is a direct reflection of the loss of leadership and demoralization that this would cause.

Excellent idea

If you could include some kind of missions for these key characters, I think this would add an interesting dimension to the game, such as Luke being trained by the little muppet.

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