Another damning enviromental report :(

[child of Thor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4391835.stm

will we be able to change our ways before its too late?

[chequita guevara]

If history is any guide, probably not.

[Zoid]

Nope, we´re all going straight to hell. The earth will purge itself of this cancer called humanity and the monkeys will eventually take over.

[child of Thor]

"God damn dirty apes!"

come on - surely its worth fighting for?

[Immortal Wombat]

Mankind? Learn? ha. We're ****ed.

[Tuberski]

Uh huh.

Notice how forest has increased in North America. It's because people need houses.

I watch Penn and Teller:Bullshit on this subject the other day.

They sent a lady out to get environmental protesters to sign a petition to get Dihydrogen monoxide banned. They told the absolute truth about it.

100's of people signed this petition.



If you are going to protest something at least know something about what you are protesting.

ACK!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Uh huh.

Notice how forest has increased in North America. It's because people need houses.

Forest has not increased. Acrage of trees has increased, but that's not the same thing. A farm is not a prairie, a tree farm is not a foreset anymore than an orange grove is. A forest is a type of ecosystem, and most of those have been pretty well destroyed. These so-called forests are nothing more than neatly arranged rows of lodgepole pine, sprayed, weeded, etc.

[Tuberski]

So?

Do they not produce oxygen?

ACK!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Tuberski
So?

ACK!

So you were totally wrong. You were just as taken in as those people signing the H₂O petition.

[Dinner]

There are more trees in North America then a century ago but many (most?) of those trees aren't a natural forest. Forests are cut down then tree farms are replanted with one or two types of fast growing and economically useful types of trees. The biodiversity is gone and animals which relied upon old growth trees or trees other then those one or two types are screwed.

[Tuberski]

Again, so what.

ACK!

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


So you were totally wrong. You were just as taken in as those people signing the H₂O petition.

No I wasn't, my point is why should I care?


you did teach me something though, I now know how to do the _sub thing.
ACK!

[chequita guevara]

Tubes, a better tack would have been to try and go after whomever these Millenium Environment Assessment people are.

It was funded by the Global Environment Facility, the United Nations Foundation, the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, the World Bank and others.

I would say that at least partially, some of those involved might be predisposed to find the answers they found. On the other hand, anyone older than their mid-twenties, only has to drive around and see how much has changed since the '70s, even in the U.S., which has pretty strict regulations.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Tuberski
So?

Do they not produce oxygen?

ACK!

It doesn"t conserve humodity like forests do. Thus the making of clouds and regular rain fall.

Spec.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Tuberski
No I wasn't, my point is why should I care?

No, your point was:

If you are going to protest something at least know something about what you are protesting.

And yet, that's what you just did, as evidenced by both Oerdin and I pointing out your factual error.

[Az]

Actually, there is nothing wrong with re-planting trees, It's actually quite good, esp. since tree farms have younger trees, that grow and produce cellulose more rapidly, and thus take in more CO2. HOWEVER, to make this all work well, you need to burry your furniture when you want to dispose of it, if you catch my drift.

[Tuberski]

Yes, things have changed. I'm not saying they haven't. But these are the same people that, in the 70's, were wraning us of the next ice age coming. Now it's global warming.

You and I are close to the same age.

ACK!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Do they not produce oxygen?

That's irrelevent to your point. No one's arguing we're running out of oxygen. Now you're just squirming.

[Spec]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
...anyone older than their mid-twenties, only has to drive around and see how much has changed since the '70s, even in the U.S., which has pretty strict regulations.

Are you serious!!! You guys still allow coal factories and all that ****. Strict regulations my ass!! Here in Canada we HAVE strict regulations that, imo, are never as strict as they should be.
You guys send us more pollution by air than we produce ourselfs

Strict regulations my ass!!


Spec.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Yes, things have changed. I'm not saying they haven't. But these are the same people that, in the 70's, were wraning us of the next ice age coming. Now it's global warming.

The difference is, most scientists are on board with the global warming, where they weren't with the next ice age. The evidence and the facts fit the models of global warming. Only an ideologue denies it.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


No, your point was:

If you are going to protest something at least know something about what you are protesting.

And yet, that's what you just did, as evidenced by both Oerdin and I pointing out your factual error.

We are confused, yes I was in error. The

So?

wasn't explained...obviously.

So? means "what do I care if forest is gone and tree farms take their place.

ACK!

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


The difference is, most scientists are on board with the global warming, where they weren't with the next ice age. The evidence and the facts fit the models of global warming. Only an ideologue denies it.

Where is the evidence and facts?

They only have temp trends for 100 years.

ACK!

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Again, so what.

ACK!

ummmm without biodiversity you'll end up with alot of desert? hows that? plants need insects to pollinate, insect need non pesticides to live, petro-chem companies need pesticides to get rich. And so it goes on untill you get a big sterile nothing, no food will grow, no animals will live, no humans either. Another Mars? stuff like that. so its not good really.

plus Che kinda pawned you on this earlier, even if you are right that most people aren't clued up on the details of the whole enviromental debate(it is pretty complex really, more so than i fully understand)

[Tuberski]

Again prove that Global Warming exists.

Temps went down in the 70's, which caused the ice age theory. Temps are going up now causing the global warming theory.

Environmentalism isn't bad, but extremism is.

ACK!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Where is the evidence and facts?

Sinking islands, disappearing glaciers, the destruction of the boreal forest by insects that should not be able to survive so far north, the melting of the permafrost (which is both hurting the boreal forests and turning the tundra into a swamp), etc. All this is stuff that hasn't been previously recorded in history.

[Az]

Originally posted by Spec


Are you serious!!! You guys still allow coal factories and all that ****. Strict regulations my ass!! Here in Canada we HAVE strict regulations that, imo, are never as strict as they should be.
You guys send us more pollution by air than we produce ourselfs

Strict regulations my ass!!


Spec.

There is nothing wrong with Coal power plants when they have the proper filters. They actually contribute less to global warming than gas power.


the real enemy of the enviroment is the internal combustion engine, and the pollution of water by organics and heavy metals.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Environmentalism isn't bad, but extremism is.

ACK!

Sticking your head in the sand is worse. If the economy has to grow slowly for a few years, and we discover we were wrong, we can make it up. If we decide to put the economy first, and decide we were wrong, we're ****ed. If the environment collapses, so does the economy.

[Dis]

humans will adapt as recources and oil runs out.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Dissident
humans will adapt as recources and oil runs out.

like grow gills to breath the tepid liquid atmosphere that will replace oxygen? sort of Toxic Avenger etc

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dissident
humans will adapt as recources and oil runs out.

That's not in doubt. The quality of life is. When the environment takes a nose dive, so does the quality of life of those remaining alive.