To my dearest Bryan Reynold...

[kaizer]

Rise of Nation!!! wow, youre the next wannabe great man after Sid Meirs... never wonder that you've been partner with him in firaxis, created the Alpha Centauri... anyway congratz... okay the main purpose i'm wrote down this letter is just to give my heavy idea to you to create a good game... LoL!!! before i wrote down more longer... i'm just want to say i'm very sorry if my english is bad and make your head twisted...

okay,my dream is want to create a game... like Civ.. but my hope is want to create game that can beat Civ!!! i want to beat Sid Meir's but... so sad.. i'm still a student, and live in Malaysia not in America or even Europe... so i can't even meet you...

Part 1:Concept game of mine
RTS+pause modepause mode has been adopted in some games such as Sim City, Baldur's Gate, Imperium Galactica. The pause help players in management field. Like Sim city and Imperium Galactica(also in Baldur's Gate), they both made a pause and play button. it becomes very easy to manage your government, cities or civilization...
//I'm wonder why Civ3 still in turn based??? turn based make me tired and dizzy coz when your unit it's too many, players must move for each of them (or we can fortified it)... but still i'm like Civ2 more than Civ3... more video than Civ3...//

Why create RTS+pause mode???
When player in pause mode, he or she can manage government, politic, diplomatic, ask ministery for some advice, talk with other civ leader, espionage mission, tribute and currency, watch your cities, people or civilization... and musch more of its benefits...

RTS is great just like you're living in reality world and with pause mode it help a lot in management field...
//Game like AoE,EE, C&C, StarWarcraft are example of great RTS games in nowdays.. but those games were only pressure in military field, not too heavy in management field like Civ... Game like AoE and EE trying to make a game that can beat Civ, but imo thay still can't even beat that Civ game!!! Civ is a natural human behavior game that consist between military and management, EE maybe can beat AoE(coz they have hundres of variety unit trough time and age), but that game is lack in management field... still can't even beat Civ...//

----------if Rise of Nation can create this RTS+pause mode game it will beat Civ... i'm surely it can beat Civ popularity...-----------------------------------------------------

Game choices
players may have two choices of game, Conquest and Civ mode...
Conquest is like Aoe and EE, a simple game, just strike your opponent till to his ass... we may disabled management field...
Civ mode is like Sim+Civ mode, management field is half of part of the game and become more important when our civilization grow from time to time...
// Just like you having two mode of game, one is EE style and other part is Civ mode//

okay i will add more... just can't write too many it will become bored to read and my fingers will tired trough the day... Part 2, part3 and more will come in net reply letter

[tniem]

One big problem with a game that takes advantage of a pause feature is what to do with it in MP. If one player pauses does that force everyone else to be in pause mode? If so, then what happens if someone pauses all the time? If not, then the player that is in pause could be losing battles and not know it, how do you solve this?

There is not much solution when a game needs the pause in MP.

[kaizer]

yup i know the weakness of pause mode is in MP.. yup i can't deny it and i've know it... okay this is an alternative way, the pause mode maybe be disabled during MP... so we maybe playin in fear and panic situation.. yup... playin a wannabe RTS-Civilization game is insane coz while manage, your opponent stike.. then strike again and again... oh this is crazy... but i wonder how Sim City or Galactic Imperium games can be played as MP games??? maybe we can pick their ideas to solve this problem!!!

[One_Dead_Villy]

well i dont particularly like having a pause mode...and certanly wont be using it on multiplayer...i dont like to give myself or anyone else any breaks or a easy way to manage the game.

[tniem]

kaizer,

no pause?

[kaizer]

hmm... but i,m just thinking how can we manage in macro and micro management without take any break of time??? can you imagine how to create a real time strategy game for Civivlization??? so there is no ther point that we can throw away the pause mod... if we look an example game like Baldur's Gate... how can w set our magic, our combat trick or any command without puse mode??? ne one else in here that have played yet the BG game??? without the puse mod, you maybe in trouble or in other word we can't even cast any spell!!!
is there is another way that we can create an exactly copycat Civilization game but in RTS mode??? that's why EE and AoE doesn't want to create the management stuff in their game... coz it will screw up the power of military aspect in their game??? or maybe they din't realize that Civilization turn based game can be RTS with pause mode???

[Blue Moose]

Game that beats Civ1/2/3 in 7 easy steps....

1. Take Alpha Centauri.....(through in the multiple item diplomacy elements of Civ 3)....SMAC is good for the unit system, the diplomacy system, and the especially the government system (that one is just great).

2. change the it to a historic->modern earth setting....

3. add in culture from civ 3, but remove culture flipping (culture helps assimilate citizens of other civs though)....

4. add small wonders from civ 3.....

5. remove terraformers.....add public works from CtP games...(wooo, no more of that pointless micromanagement, no more time wasted moving workers or watching automated ones move around)....

6. Use a CtP-like combat system...or something similarly advanced.

7. No matter what, the AI can always get better ; )

And there you are, the best Civ game ever! .....too bad it doesn't exist....hopefully someday....

Maybe RoN will be somewhat like this in some nice ways....looks like it could be, even though it is an RTS. Unit upgrades look fairly easy, no terraformers, nice seeming combat system so far, interesting issues with taking a city....I have hopes. (Though something in me would still really like the above TBS game).

-Moose

[kaizer]

imo, when i played Civ3, i feel upset... some of Civ2 element doesn't exist anymore... like the video of ministery, video of wonder... oh i fel like more boring than CtP!!! but nowdays either firaxis or Big Huge game will create this new entirely RTS+pause mode Civilization game... then that game will crush the popularity of Civilization copz of RTS element... turnbased is so boring.. when we've got pleanty stuff to move... and manage... but alpha centauri color and interface are even more weak than CtP or Civ3!!!

[Blue Moose]

Civ3 is a lot different....I mostly miss the innovations that could have been there.....it also seems like I have to be a lot more warlike throughout the game to win.

I also dislike the loss of governments.

I agree with you as well about the wonder movies and advisors....it is sort of like some of the fun and silliness just isn't there. The council in CivII was great!

-Moose

[kaizer]

Part 2... Wonder
Well in Civ2 and 3 wonder give an extra global effect throughout our civ... but in AoE and AoK it just an alternate winning way to players...but worst in EE, wonder becomes.. sort of unimportant things part in their game... well this is my i dea bout the wonder...

Wonder is a glorious monument structure or humungeous building through the age and time... in AoE and EE, their just pay an amount of resources then they achive to a new age...
but imo, my idea is, each wonder has each unique effect and the main course to advance to a new era...
for an example... in Stone age we may have multiply wonder... Stone Age wonder like Moai statue, Stonehedge, and some more... each of this wonder have each unique ability or maybe produce unique unit or maybe heroes... like Pyramid has its unique effect and maybe produce phaoroh as a unit or heroes... and wonder is the main part for civ to advanced to another new Age... not just paying some resourecs to advance to another era like what AoE and EE or even StarWarcraft has done...

[One_Dead_Villy]

interesting idea kaizer

[kaizer]

Part 3: Pople, Human , Civilian, Worker...

Okay this is the main unit of all in our game... 1st of all, you may have3 choices...
1)Having civilian as a unit like AoE and EE
2)Civilian is represented as data like Sim City, CtP,
3)combine both

imo when i playing EE, yup it have great units trough time n ages... our civilian becomes weaker n weaker when our military becomes more devastating and catastrophic unit... that is the weakness of EE civilian unit, EE must also upgrade civilian from civilian to horses civilian to engineer to ore miner or constructor then upgrade to drone to super drone... just an example... upgrade for civilian... it make civilian more powerful trough times and its was realistic if we see our present days... nowdays all industry use heavy mass transports, soo our civilian must also being upgrade to that unit...
but the main thing that i hate to playin with civilian is... each time i must click it to command it what is the nexy command... after that it becomes idle... and the most hated thing is my civilian is being killed by my opponent!!! damn!!! its hurt...

so to prevent our civilian from being killed is easy just use the choices of number 2...
just represent civilian as data static like sim city and CtP...
each places of resorces must placed on top of it or besides it with mineral factory or miner... then we create some percentage in out civ center or govern center how much of our people becomes public worker, conscprit(basic army), for example consrpit 50 % and public worker 40% and 10%freedom civilian, then if our population is 10, 000 (well you can calculate by your self)... without consrpit you can't even create official army... without public worker you can't create buildings... like Red alert it doesn't have any civilian (maybe in campaign) but it have heavy ore miner... so its dificult to destroy it... so Red alert is more efficient game than AoE and EE coz... imo.... just strike your opponent without even thinking bout your puny civilian...
then each miner or factory you can put any number of public worker in it... more public worker more fast it harvest the mineral... so each economy building need public worker or even merchant, corporate to boost your economy... in science bulding you need freedom people to be sciencetist... in goverment building you need freedom people to becomes stateman... but all civilian and people is represent as data... if the building collapse.. so all people in it dies... so you just make your move waht to build... and create your army... its more simple...

thrd choices combine both...

[kaizer]

Part 4: Map
Map in RTS style r small... i mean just a scope of terrain field... or in other word... map in RTS is just can be played as campaign only... coz you'll playin in small world... like CIV... CTP... they both have real world map... till now i'm still thinkin... how RTS can be played as in world map... not just a small scope of terrain field map!!! we may play in gigantrous mega-ultra world map size... like playin in real world map... n the only think that i've think till now is...
1st we must have world globe map in any corner side of interface...
2nd we must have an region map... i mean like nowdays RTS map...
both map help player to manage it own civ... look overall it own empire... or look in a small scope of map... or maybe city or region map...
yup its hard to create this mega-ultra size map... i'm still thinkin how we can play civ in RTS mode but in da same time we have an equal size of world map...

da weakness in RTS map is... u may can have 1 to 5 city in that map only... its feel small... like civ if u have captured city or expanding territory... you'll be feel as like an emperor... having a tremendous mega size empire in our world... LOL!!! but if we still using the Epic map like RTS nowdays map.. n doesn't have a World globe map... we can't still having 20 or more cities in our CIVILIZATION.... coz epic map is small... can't support to 10 or more cities...

[tniem]

kaizer,

In the future if you have a new idea, please put them into new threads so that we can discuss each one individually. That said about wonders:

Wonders have always been small in RTS because of the small scale for the game. I would have to believe in a more global time frame they will have more impact in RoN. However, I would be against them being the reason for you advancing to the next age. Most wonders are the pinnacle of a particular age in history not the steeping stone to the next age. The Egyptian Pyramids never helped them move to the next age. Building the Parthenon in Greece did not advance their civilization, it was the culimination of work from the entire age. So I do not think using it as the steeping stone to the next age is a good idea.


On worker units:
BHG has said that idle workers will find work to do whether that be finishing up a cathedral or moving to that lumber camp and chopping down trees. Apparently they will do the smartest thing, i.e. you are low on Food so they farm before they cut lumber down but we will see. How does that sound to you?


On maps:
I don't know the size of maps but there is an eight city limit so it has to be a little bit bigger than what you were describing. But I guess we will see. Not to mention in a RTS you don't want to large of maps as it is to hard to know everything that is going on and have control of it in a fast paced game. Maybe in a TBS but not in a RTS.

[tniem]

Oh and on maps, Paul from BHG said in our chat room today (9/22) that

I haven't personally compared map dimensions but it sure feels like our maps are larger than most RTS games I've played

He said this in response to the question that there are worries that the map will not be large enough to support the cities that they are giving us. So hopefully that at least allievates your concern on that issue.