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  • Awesome GameSpy Update!

    Sorry if this is old news, but I was out of town for a while...all I can say to Brian and the team is that these items are some of EXACTLY what I was hoping you'd do! Bravo!

    http://www.gamespy.com/previews/march02/riseofnations/
    • Unlike most, your culture's borders will be clearly marked on the map, and they affect gameplay. You can only build civic buildings near your town center, and you can only build military buildings within your nation's borders. How do you expand? One way is by building additional towns. Another is by building up your nation's level of civilization and culture. A better civilization will begin to swallow up more of the map, ideally safeguarding more important resources within its borders.
    • But the attacker is not without advantages; you can "take over" an enemy city by attacking it to reduce it to zero health. Then, as long as you have more military units present then the defender, the city -- and all the economic and cultural buildings around it -- becomes yours. Because of these changes, borders tend to shift realistically across the map during gameplay, and battles tend to rage around key economic cities that are often blasted but rarely destroyed.
    • And yes, you really can play it on your lunch hour. Playtesters so far are able to go from the Stone Age to the Information Age in roughly 56 minutes, so you'll really get to feel the march of time.
    • Combat is also refined to add a level of strategic depth. All units have a front, flanks, and a rear.
    • Oh yes, you can also research nuclear weapons. With these you're looking at a whole screenful of decimation. Careful, though -- if too many nations fire nukes, the game is declared "Armageddon" and everyone loses.(!)
    • In Rise of Nations, knowledge is a resource that is collected and spent, just like wood. To harvest it, you'll need to create a university and send your citizens there (you'll see them sitting in row upon row of tiny desks, listening to a lecturer.) Knowledge will help you research new technologies or create specialized units. For example, researching and building a nuke will require a huge expenditure of knowledge.
    • "Oil is the grease of the modern age, uh, literally," Reynolds quipped. It also adds a twist to the latter parts of the game, since oil resources aren't even shown on the map until civilizations advance enough to need them. Suddenly territories that looked useless early on will become hotly contested. Sometimes oil reserves can only be found at sea, where they have to be harvested by offshore platforms, "finally giving you something substantive to do with your navy," Reynolds pointed out.
    • The most useful of the special units, though, is the general. Creating a high level general is an immense benefit to your forces -- his "Rally" ability will make nearby units fire faster and withstand more damage. He can also call a "forced march" which will allow a group of infantry to run forward in formation almost as fast as cavalry. Most intriguing is his "ambush" ability, which can temporarily render his nearby soldiers invisible. Just when you think you're in the clear and you're about to start shelling the enemy capital, a wiley general may suddenly appear to lead a charge to your flanks!
    I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

    "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

  • #2
    While I had been taking a rather passive but positive view of the RoN effort, I now see enormous potential in this game design! I swear, though, if I lose my job because of playing RoN too much, I'll start a class action lawsuit!
    I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

    "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, this game is starting to sound like it has some excellent potential. If they have until next year to balance and fix it, I would expect that this game could be fantastic.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh yes, you can also research nuclear weapons. With these you're looking at a whole screenful of decimation. Careful, though -- if too many nations fire nukes, the game is declared "Armageddon" and everyone loses.(!)
        The secret is to build up enough nuclear weapons so that they could almost cause Armageddon and launch them all at once. There won't be any nuclear retaliation since your opponents wouldn't want to destroy the world, would they?

        Seriously though that description seems more civ-like than I expected. And with so many promising 'classic' RTS games coming out soon that's good!

        Still I'd really like to know a few things, like how that zero-health-city exactly works.
        Interested in creating a TBS game similar to Colonization?
        Have a look here !
        New C++ programmers needed!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Awesome GameSpy Update!

          whenever yin gets excited i get cynical

          Originally posted by yin26
          • Unlike most, your culture's borders will be clearly marked on the map, and they affect gameplay. You can only build civic buildings near your town center, and you can only build military buildings within your nation's borders...
          • classic tbs

          • But the attacker is not without advantages; you can "take over" an enemy city by attacking it to reduce it to zero health. Then, as long as you have more military units present then the defender, the city -- and all the economic and cultural buildings around it -- becomes yours.
          yet more classic stuff (if this was a tbs)

        • And yes, you really can play it on your lunch hour. Playtesters so far are able to go from the Stone Age to the Information Age in roughly 56 minutes, so you'll really get to feel the march of time.
        i think we'll have to actually live this experience to judge it(havent played empire earth).

      • Combat is also refined to add a level of strategic depth. All units have a front, flanks, and a rear.
      • now that sounds interesting

      • Oh yes, you can also research nuclear weapons. With these you're looking at a whole screenful of decimation. Careful, though -- if too many nations fire nukes, the game is declared "Armageddon" and everyone loses.(!)
      • like when you leave a game out of boredom cause of too much pollution?

      • In Rise of Nations, knowledge is a resource that is collected and spent, just like wood .... For example, researching and building a nuke will require a huge expenditure of knowledge.
      • does building the second nuke cost the same as the first one?

      • It also adds a twist to the latter parts of the game, since oil resources aren't even shown on the map until civilizations advance enough to need them. Suddenly territories that looked useless early on will become hotly contested.
      • eeer like civ3(except from the sea part)

      • The most useful of the special units, though, is the general. ...
      • i wonder if there is some limit on the number of generals you can have based on the number of cities
        Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
        Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
        giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

        Comment


        • #6
          Hey, click-fest RTS is in desperate need of heretofore 'TBS' elements. Of course I noticed some of the similarities ... but nobody has made them work yet in an RTS. If Brian can, he's gonna really make an outstanding game.
          I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

          "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by yin26
            Hey, click-fest RTS is in desperate need of heretofore 'TBS' elements. Of course I noticed some of the similarities ... but nobody has made them work yet in an RTS. If Brian can, he's gonna really make an outstanding game.
            ok good


            now, can you please remove the quote tag from your signature? it's really confusing, one might take it for part of the post
            Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
            Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
            giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

            Comment


            • #8
              Re: Awesome GameSpy Update!

              Originally posted by yin26
              Sorry if this is old news, but I was out of town for a while...
              It's quite rare to be able to tell something first...

              all I can say to Brian and the team is that these items are some of EXACTLY what I was hoping you'd do!
              Yes, it looks good - I'm also waiting for RoN
              • And yes, you really can play it on your lunch hour. Playtesters so far are able to go from the Stone Age to the Information Age in roughly 56 minutes, so you'll really get to feel the march of time.
              Well, maybe I'm a too hard TBS-player when I ´really think 56 minutes to be a way too short of a time for a good game...

              The list is very good, I would just like to add two things more to the list
              • There is a way to reveal the map in lategame
              • RoN is a semi-RTS, like EU.


              Semi-RTS is very good news to me - this way I can at least somehow apply my TBS playstyle.

              (Btw. X-Com Apolyctica is a good game that had both TBS and semi-RTS in it.)


              P.S. What's up with your sig Yin?

              Comment


              • #9
                In addition to what yin26 has provided, here are a few other worthwhile tidbits:

                * Attacking another nation isn't a trivial matter of flooding it with your units. For one thing, once you cross into another nation, your military units will suffer from attrition (slowly losing health and combat effectiveness.) Resourceful players can counteract this by sending out supply wagons to reinforce the troops.

                * There are eighteen different nations available to the player. Each has a distinct (and sizeable) advantage, so as to "suggest a couple of cool strategies" for each one, as Reynolds put it. For example, if you attack the Russian nation, you'll find that your troops suffer an extremely high attrition rate in enemy territory -- you'll suffer through the same Russian Winters that defeated Napoleon and Nazis alike. Every nation also has a couple of unique military units, most of which change over time to ensure that everyone has a couple aces in the hole no matter what era players are in.

                * Combat is also refined to add a level of strategic depth. All units have a front, flanks, and a rear. Even infantry; in fact, infantry units are depicted in groups of threes, so you can clearly see which way your troops are facing. This isn't just a matter of graphical splendor. You'll be able to line your troops up in formations, and attacks from the sides or rear of an enemy are many times more effective. Outnumbered? You can turn the tide of battle by rushing your cavalry into the enemy flanks from a nearby hillside.

                * As you'd expect given the strategic background of the developers, victory will come to the player who can effectively use combined forces against the enemy (infantry, artillery, cavalry, and eventually air power). Still, Big Huge Games wants simplicity as well as depth, so they're trying to limit the unit types accordingly. "Careful pacing and streamlining" is how Reynolds described their approach to the game's combat system.

                * Speaking of imperialism, the only way to get gold is through trade. As you expand, you'll want to create little trading caravans that will establish trade routes between your major cities, just as you did in the Civilization games. It's a good way to strengthen your economy, and hence, broaden your borders. There are also special resources available, usually in only one area of the map. For example, you might discover a diamond mine. If you set up a merchant nearby, the advantage of the diamond mine will go to your civilization and yours alone -- in this case, increasing your civilization's maximum trade output. Areas like these will also no doubt be hotly contested.

                * Along with your standard games and your random map games, you'll also be able to limit the scope of the conflict. "No fighting until gunpowder" is a popular one with the beta testers right now.

                Normally, I'm not a RTS player. But this game is looking interesting. It will come with many options to suit your play style. Also, the fact that RoN will be in beta testing for another year really speaks volumes on the potential quality of this game. . .

                I hope that RoN will come with a separate upgrade screen to allow a player some interesting decisions on what to upgrade/modify. . .

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Leonidas
                  * Attacking another nation isn't a trivial matter of flooding it with your units. For one thing, once you cross into another nation, your military units will suffer from attrition (Slowly losing health and combat effectiveness.) Resourceful players can counteract this by sending out supply wagons to reinforce the troops.
                  I'm not sure that I like that feature. Combat effectiveness is a reasonable thing to the farther an army goes into another countries territory but I fail to see any reason for the health loss. This penalty should also taper off as the civilization advances through the ages.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                  • #11
                    On attrition

                    Originally posted by DinoDoc
                    Combat effectiveness is a reasonable thing to the farther an army goes into another countries territory but I fail to see any reason for the health loss. This penalty should also taper off as the civilization advances through the ages.
                    Well, if you look into history you notice that health is very important.
                    If one looks at Napoleons raid to Russia - he started with several hundred thousand men, but finally only about 30000 made it back IIRC.

                    Rest of the men didn't all die on the battlefield. Besides bad supply to troops deserting was another big problem of that time. So losing health is OK to me.
                    And yes attrition should be more harsh in early game than in modern times.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      The Russian Winter brutalized Napoleon's Army. The chart I have here (http://www.napoleonic-literature.com/1812/1812.htm, if you want to see it too), shows 422000 troops going into Russia and 10000 coming back. The chart is cross correlated with temperature and geography (this is a true classic of information presentation) and you can clearly see that each time the temperature dropped, there were massive losses. The river crossing at the Berezina River was disasterous.
                      Seemingly Benign
                      Download Watercolor Terrain - New Conquests Watercolor Terrain

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                      • #13
                        Re: On attrition

                        Originally posted by Jeje2
                        Well, if you look into history you notice that health is very important.
                        I'm more concerned with the balancing aspects of the idea than I am the historical aspects of it.
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          reposting WarpStorm's cool url

                          Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
                          Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
                          giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

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                          • #15
                            Re: Re: On attrition

                            Originally posted by DinoDoc
                            I'm more concerned with the balancing aspects of the idea than I am the historical aspects of it.
                            OK,
                            you have a good point - gamebalance before historical facts.

                            Have you played Europa Universalis (EU)?
                            In that game the aspect of attritgion is done quite well IMHO and it works for gameplay too.

                            WarpStorm: Yes, a very good link about the classical fact - I was too optimistic in my writing.

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