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**Solver** · October 16, 2003, 12:51

Generally, RoN is the closest to what you want. It does have the diplomacy, with all capitulations, etc.

However, take this in account. Civ 3 is a TBS game. In all TBS games, you will need thinking, but will not have too much control over troop tactics. In all RTS games, though, you will need a good deal of speed, and less thinking.

CtP2 provides a more complex and much more strategic combat model than Civ 3, and a nice "battle view", but it's not battles like in RoN.

**HalfLotus** · October 17, 2003, 12:17

Luckily RoN has pause and cannon-time, so you don't need speed, and you can do all the thinking you want. And it is rewarded in the form of flanking and terrain bonuses, also your use of generals, spies, special forces. RoN has a nice mix of the real time action and the strategic & tactical depth. The diplomacy, on the other hand, is pretty shallow imo. Perhaps it will be fleshed out in the expansion.

And if you're going to play civ, you might as well go with Civ 2 and play the real thing.

**fuerza** · October 17, 2003, 17:28

Yeah, I agree with some of what both of you said. CTP2 with the complex strategy of war play and the fact that RoN needs to really delve into the diplomacy aspect of this game.

Ideally...I would love to see a game that is an excellent cross between Civ3 and Ron/EE/or the like. I need total control of the eagle eye vs. micromanagement views of each city. For example. I want to establish a city founding and cue up buildings and/or units ( I really like the idea of public works in CTP2), then while that is going on, return to a mid to well-developing city and go to micromanagement and work with the soldiers or personnel of my city. When it comes time for battle I would like the governers of the cities I am NOT zeroed in on to follow the build cue or make decisions based upon my civilization goals while I am commanding the troops in a different region of the map. A 'call for reinforcement' button would automatically dispatch troops from neighboring cities based on a home troop/away troop percentage I could specify in the beginning. Hell, these are just a few of the ideas I have for what I would love to see. Yea, I know it could be very complex but that is what I want. The complete micromanagement of EVERYTHING in RoN or EE turns me off alot of the time. In those games, more times than not, everthing seems to end in a military conflict. What I am trying to say is that I want a true Civ game with a big dose of player controlled, as in options and preferences, RTS! Geez, if I had better programming skills I would write exactly want I wanted and sell it myself. Hopefully, there is someone, some software house out there that also has my ideas in mind and makes it happen.

**Todd Hawks** · October 25, 2003, 14:37

How about Europa Universalis (2)?

**Chronus** · November 2, 2003, 11:28

I saw RON last night for the very first time. My nephew gave me a brief introduction to the campaign game.

From what I can see (and from what my nephew described to me), it doesn't have that Civ 3 aspect. Maybe I see it this way because I'm a peaceful-builder type. Like Europa Universalis, there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot to do when you are not fighting anyone.

**Vipermmx** · November 2, 2003, 18:30

Get Empires Dawn of the Morden War. On Empire builder mode it takes awhile to get into fights and there is many defences to advancing units.

Also all Civs are VERY different. Unlike RON where pretty much every civ is the same and if ya play it alot it gets boring fast. Always researching the same techs to advance.

In empires ya pay gold to advance and its expensive when ya also have to build units to fight and it has WALLS.

Medival to WW2 and all civs have different units and looks. Also counter units actually work. In RON 1 tank which is a counter to light infatry have a hard time lol.

Empires

Its a blast and the campaign is damn good. No real base building mostly stratigic attacks and building of units.

**HalfLotus** · November 2, 2003, 19:13

Viper if you're gonna plug a cruddy RTS here, at least get the name right. It's Dawn of the Modern WORLD.

**Vipermmx** · November 2, 2003, 21:36

Cruddy? lol

Look at RON

Its fanbase shrinks daily! Its boring!

SPAM warfare is all it is. Set rally point on target and spit out endless units till one of ya dies and claims city. The economy is far to fast and gameplay is a drag once ya figure out all the units are the same.

No units counter there counters worth a damn. 1 tank cant take 5 infatry? LMAO ''

Uniqie units arent! There same with same stats!

Techs all the same.....after 3 times of teching up the tree its boring. Why no Auto tech? Thats the worse part of the game!

Even on VERY EXPENSIVE its far to easy to tech and build a war machine!

Lets compare!

Graphics---

- Empire wins here. Even though RON has very nice animations for units and they do small perks its ugly. Tanks look bulky and boxy! Infatry are pixeled! Explosions suck! No blood!

-In Empire all graphics are amazing! Water that reflects its surroundings! Trees that seem real! Units up close still look good and tanks and everything look like they belong in the world! Not to bulky or unattached unlike RON!

Counter system----

Empire wins! In RON no unit counters worth a crap!

Gameplay-----

Empire yet again. In empire you actually have different races with there own units and strategys! Unlike RON where its mostly all about out producing your enemy and climbing the tech tree fast as possible!

Favorite RON moment!

Hey look im in classical age! 10mins later hey I got a nuke!

Thanks :

**Sava** · November 3, 2003, 10:11

god, please get rid of this empires fanboy...

Empires sucks boy, get over it!

**Sarxis** · November 3, 2003, 16:59

No kidding. Fanboi BE-GONE!

RoN ROCKS!!!! YAYAYAYAY!!

**Divvy** · November 4, 2003, 17:22

Originally posted by Vipermmx
Graphics---

- Empire wins here. Even though RON has very nice animations for units and they do small perks its ugly. Tanks look bulky and boxy! Infatry are pixeled! Explosions suck! No blood!

-In Empire all graphics are amazing! Water that reflects its surroundings! Trees that seem real! Units up close still look good and tanks and everything look like they belong in the world! Not to bulky or unattached unlike RON!

Counter system----

Empire wins! In RON no unit counters worth a crap!

Gameplay-----

Empire yet again. In empire you actually have different races with there own units and strategys! Unlike RON where its mostly all about out producing your enemy and climbing the tech tree fast as possible!

Favorite RON moment!

Hey look im in classical age! 10mins later hey I got a nuke!

What's wrong with you really? As far as I know hardly anyone plays empire earth (if thats the game you're talking about)

You might actually have a couple of valid points but..., Im not much of a RTS player.

"In Empire all graphics are amazing! Water that reflects its surroundings! Trees that seem real! Units up close still look good and tanks and everything look like they belong in the world! Not to bulky or unattached unlike RON!"

That's such complete utter bull****, zoom in on the units in EE and they look uglier than total annihilation units (which is MUCH older 5-6 years? maybe more)...

I think AOM is one of the better looking strategy games (although I don't actually own it, nor do I own RON for that matter)

The only thing I can remember of EE is that it probably has the lousiest AI ever created, it has to cheat like mad to have any chance... and it does too.

**VitalyB** · November 15, 2003, 06:23

He's talking about the EE v2.0, "Empires: Dawn of the Modern World".

And a short score review (based on the averag of GameRankings):

Rise of Nations: 89%.
Empires: 84%.
Empire Earth: 82%.

**bigboss** · November 22, 2003, 04:03

The overall best "Civ" type game I have ever played is:
Master of Magic

This game has exactly what you are looking for. Diplomacy, trading, building cities, exploration, and tactical battles.

Sadly, it is an old DOS game that uses EMS, and is often a pain to get working under current operating systems. If it was possible, I would personally buy the rights to the source code and modify it to use DirectX.

Galactic Civilizations also appears to be something you would be interested in. I have not tried it personally, but I have read much about it and came very close to buying it. I have too many games that don't get enough attention already.

Another good, but old, series is Lords of the Realm. It is turn based like the ones mentioned above. This was the first strategy game that made me never want to quit playing.

**Rolfski** · November 22, 2003, 14:41

Re: A TRUE Civ/Strategy game....???

Originally posted by fuerza
I want a Civ/Strategy game that is a balanced mixed of Civ3 and RoN/Empire Earth/AoE

Yea, I know alot will say, well then, just play Civ3. Well, no...I want more actually action graphics so that when I AM involved in a war I can control the tactics of my units. You really can't do that in Civ3.

So, hardcore Civ/RTS gamers, which has the happy mix of what I want?

I played them all so this is my opinion:

If you like traditional RTS like AoE or Cossacks series play RoN, it's better. If you like space setting I can also recommend Homeworld 2.

If you like fast paced micro clickfests buy WC3, Empires DotMW or Generals. These are all solid games with high mp value.

If you like casual turnbased empire building buy CIV 3: Conquest. The lastest CIV is polished and has some nice alternative campaigns. If you like space setting go for Galactic Civizations, it looks dated but the gameplay is good, diplomacy is deep and the AI is incredible.

If you like deep (and I mean really deep) and highly realistic empire building RTS buy Paradox games: EU 2 (1420-1820), HoI (1936-1947) or Victoria (1836-1920). Their latest Victoria has an unsurpassed complexity and realism, still it is fairly easy and inituitive to play. And the diplomacy options will make Henry Kissinger feel like a boyscout.

If you want it all buy Medieval: Total war. IMO the best overall strategy game that combines turnbased empire building with very tactical realtime 3D battles. The latest VI expansion is good and there is an incredible mod (MedMod) available that enhances overall gameplay a lot.

In your case I would probably go for MTW, deep strategy and very controllable action although a bit light in diplomacy.

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A TRUE Civ/Strategy game....???

A TRUE Civ/Strategy game....???

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