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AKA: "It's all Greek to me!"
Situation: CtW, Gunpowder Age, Bantu. Eliminated Nubians, Egyptians, and Spanish, allied with Germans. I took Italy from Sahara while the Greeks eliminated the Germans. So now I want to eliminate the Greeks by attacking from Italy. Unfortunately their Turkish allies have an adjacent army, and the only reinforcements I have come from Terra Cotta. [For reference, I also control the Colossus.]
Yesterday, I wrote to a friend:
<<
I'm getting a bit bored with "tough" because the AI can't beat what I'm doing, so I tend to do the same thing repetitively. Yes, there are variations over time, but the fundamentals are the same: recon aggressively, maximize production to the cap, research as rapidly as practical until the age advance, get that second city up fast, keep raising the commerce cap, get a tower up just in case the opponent rushes (and to get attrition working), build & staff universities, get a dock ASAP since fish provide wealth as well as food, push the borders with cities, temples, and forts, get generals with the armies, maintain a defensive army while the econ and research come up to speed, crush whatever the AI sends, seize control of the sea, bombard (or bomb) anything near the coast, secure a beachhead and first city from the AI, roll 'em up.
Now we'll see how well this works 1 vs 2. ... Now I'm attacking Greece from Italy but the Turks are supporting the Greeks so their are two AI powers. I can attack around the top of the Adriatic or across the sea (I expect to launch two prongs later, possibly enveloping a defending army). I'm just not sure if I'm going to be ready to defend and attack fast enough. Both AI powers have now reached the Enlightenment Age so I have no significant tech advantage. Maybe I was too slow to attack. However, they haven't interfered with me in any way. Of course I haven't much interfered with them, either.
>>
Answer: it works POORLY one versus two. . .and don't you just *love* hearing newbies give advice to each other?
With two commerce caps and equivalent tech to work with, I think the AI will overwhelm me unless I can pull off some sort of coup d'main. Also, the starting situation was a bit tougher than I originally said, because the Greeks played both the Roman Oath of Fealty and the German Oath of Fealty, while I played only the Spanish OoF and held onto the Egyptian Oof. That makes for heavy sledding.
The first battle went well. My intent was to defend on a narrow front next to the top of the Adriatic, and to send hussars and "gun cavalry" looping around behind to sandwich them. The enemy did not cooperate, heading inland toward the cavalry. So I had the cavalry fall back past a city/keep combo while I sent my 1st Infanty up to defend at the city and sent my 2nd Infantry to follow the enemy toward the city (with my cavalry trotting around to join the 2nd). My cavalrymen did not cooperate; for some reason only half of them fell back (god knows which wrong key I hit). However, I had a general with the uncooperative cavalry and I had him go into ambush mode so that the enemy marched past him. Sandwich play annihilated the enemy.
OK, time to counterpunch. Sent damaged units for repair, built a forward fortress and brought the 1st Infantry in line with the 2nd Infantry to prepare to strike SE along the Dalmatian Coast...and a Persian army attacked my left while a Greek army attacked my right. Basillica Cannon, regular cannon, about 4 supply wagons, spies, and a nice mixed force of infantry and horse. BIG fight. I brought up a frigate and a bomb ketch to enfilade the Greek left, and to rain shells among their artillery and supply. I tried to sneak commandos around to attack the supply wagons which just got me dead commandos. About this time, the Greeks started sending units across the Adriatic through my corvettes to attack my cities directly. This generated some frantic moments, but attrition ate them alive. Meanwhile, their artillery took out the fortress at the center of my line. Gradually, I prevailed. The issue was never really in doubt, but at the same time, only my replacements saved me. I basically lost almost all the units I started with (my starting army and my Terra Cotta reinforcements).
Meanwhile, I built a significant fleet with about 6 bomb ketches and controlled their coastline (no more invaders, thank you!) The Greeks only built one city incautiously close to the coast, but I beat the hell out of that while sending my new army forward to capture it. Duly assimilated...at which point a big Greek army tried to retake it. Tough fight. I built a fortress to cover while I licked my wounds, and an even bigger combined Greek/Turk army attacked. Another fortress got smashed by Turkish cannon (which outrange anything I have), but I was able to sneak some horses around their seaward flank and send them among the cannon and supply wagons. Wheeled my left and flanked their formation...but my left got badly beaten up doing so. I withdrew them to my original line and saw a *huge* force of Turkish and Greek artillery sliding across my front heading inland, obviously to circle my left to try another avenue of attack. OH, OH.
That city's land flank is covered by a mountain, and the rear is a very narrow gap between a forest and the sea. I have the seaward flank secure. So I put some artillery and infantry to cover the rear...and my reinforcements coming from the north got ambushed by Greek Curiassiers on the way. It looks like they will strike the small city and fortress that lie between the city I took and my northern barracks/stable/siege combo. There's no way I can stop that, and then they can gradually roll up MY cities. I don't think I can beat that force in a stand-up fight, and I can't produce units as fast as the two of them combined.
The only thing that MIGHT work would be if I put up token resistance in the north as a distraction while pulling the whole army out of that coastal city to bring it around the coastline to the extreme southeast, near Athens. If I then put the whole force in Ambush/Hold Fire and force-march it to Athens, I *might* be able to reduce the city and hold it long enough to eliminate the Greeks. If I can do that, then I can beat the Turks one-on-one. If they can get that massive artillery-heavy army back in time to relieve Athens, then I'm toast.
"Oh, no! Not another Learning Experience!"
[Of course this *is* a good learning experience, and I have the starting position saved so I can use this as a tactical exercise.]
Situation: CtW, Gunpowder Age, Bantu. Eliminated Nubians, Egyptians, and Spanish, allied with Germans. I took Italy from Sahara while the Greeks eliminated the Germans. So now I want to eliminate the Greeks by attacking from Italy. Unfortunately their Turkish allies have an adjacent army, and the only reinforcements I have come from Terra Cotta. [For reference, I also control the Colossus.]
Yesterday, I wrote to a friend:
<<
I'm getting a bit bored with "tough" because the AI can't beat what I'm doing, so I tend to do the same thing repetitively. Yes, there are variations over time, but the fundamentals are the same: recon aggressively, maximize production to the cap, research as rapidly as practical until the age advance, get that second city up fast, keep raising the commerce cap, get a tower up just in case the opponent rushes (and to get attrition working), build & staff universities, get a dock ASAP since fish provide wealth as well as food, push the borders with cities, temples, and forts, get generals with the armies, maintain a defensive army while the econ and research come up to speed, crush whatever the AI sends, seize control of the sea, bombard (or bomb) anything near the coast, secure a beachhead and first city from the AI, roll 'em up.
Now we'll see how well this works 1 vs 2. ... Now I'm attacking Greece from Italy but the Turks are supporting the Greeks so their are two AI powers. I can attack around the top of the Adriatic or across the sea (I expect to launch two prongs later, possibly enveloping a defending army). I'm just not sure if I'm going to be ready to defend and attack fast enough. Both AI powers have now reached the Enlightenment Age so I have no significant tech advantage. Maybe I was too slow to attack. However, they haven't interfered with me in any way. Of course I haven't much interfered with them, either.
>>
Answer: it works POORLY one versus two. . .and don't you just *love* hearing newbies give advice to each other?
With two commerce caps and equivalent tech to work with, I think the AI will overwhelm me unless I can pull off some sort of coup d'main. Also, the starting situation was a bit tougher than I originally said, because the Greeks played both the Roman Oath of Fealty and the German Oath of Fealty, while I played only the Spanish OoF and held onto the Egyptian Oof. That makes for heavy sledding.
The first battle went well. My intent was to defend on a narrow front next to the top of the Adriatic, and to send hussars and "gun cavalry" looping around behind to sandwich them. The enemy did not cooperate, heading inland toward the cavalry. So I had the cavalry fall back past a city/keep combo while I sent my 1st Infanty up to defend at the city and sent my 2nd Infantry to follow the enemy toward the city (with my cavalry trotting around to join the 2nd). My cavalrymen did not cooperate; for some reason only half of them fell back (god knows which wrong key I hit). However, I had a general with the uncooperative cavalry and I had him go into ambush mode so that the enemy marched past him. Sandwich play annihilated the enemy.
OK, time to counterpunch. Sent damaged units for repair, built a forward fortress and brought the 1st Infantry in line with the 2nd Infantry to prepare to strike SE along the Dalmatian Coast...and a Persian army attacked my left while a Greek army attacked my right. Basillica Cannon, regular cannon, about 4 supply wagons, spies, and a nice mixed force of infantry and horse. BIG fight. I brought up a frigate and a bomb ketch to enfilade the Greek left, and to rain shells among their artillery and supply. I tried to sneak commandos around to attack the supply wagons which just got me dead commandos. About this time, the Greeks started sending units across the Adriatic through my corvettes to attack my cities directly. This generated some frantic moments, but attrition ate them alive. Meanwhile, their artillery took out the fortress at the center of my line. Gradually, I prevailed. The issue was never really in doubt, but at the same time, only my replacements saved me. I basically lost almost all the units I started with (my starting army and my Terra Cotta reinforcements).
Meanwhile, I built a significant fleet with about 6 bomb ketches and controlled their coastline (no more invaders, thank you!) The Greeks only built one city incautiously close to the coast, but I beat the hell out of that while sending my new army forward to capture it. Duly assimilated...at which point a big Greek army tried to retake it. Tough fight. I built a fortress to cover while I licked my wounds, and an even bigger combined Greek/Turk army attacked. Another fortress got smashed by Turkish cannon (which outrange anything I have), but I was able to sneak some horses around their seaward flank and send them among the cannon and supply wagons. Wheeled my left and flanked their formation...but my left got badly beaten up doing so. I withdrew them to my original line and saw a *huge* force of Turkish and Greek artillery sliding across my front heading inland, obviously to circle my left to try another avenue of attack. OH, OH.
That city's land flank is covered by a mountain, and the rear is a very narrow gap between a forest and the sea. I have the seaward flank secure. So I put some artillery and infantry to cover the rear...and my reinforcements coming from the north got ambushed by Greek Curiassiers on the way. It looks like they will strike the small city and fortress that lie between the city I took and my northern barracks/stable/siege combo. There's no way I can stop that, and then they can gradually roll up MY cities. I don't think I can beat that force in a stand-up fight, and I can't produce units as fast as the two of them combined.
The only thing that MIGHT work would be if I put up token resistance in the north as a distraction while pulling the whole army out of that coastal city to bring it around the coastline to the extreme southeast, near Athens. If I then put the whole force in Ambush/Hold Fire and force-march it to Athens, I *might* be able to reduce the city and hold it long enough to eliminate the Greeks. If I can do that, then I can beat the Turks one-on-one. If they can get that massive artillery-heavy army back in time to relieve Athens, then I'm toast.
"Oh, no! Not another Learning Experience!"
[Of course this *is* a good learning experience, and I have the starting position saved so I can use this as a tactical exercise.]