Should SUPPLY WAGONS be modified?

[Jeje2]

After palying some quick games I started to think about those supply wagons.
It's just suiside to attack whitout them, but with them no problem (Even Russia can be invaded with supply wagons).

Well this just isn't the fact historically at least, just look at Napeleons crusade into Russia (In gunpowder age).^*


So I started to think what could be done?
1. A supply wagon supplies X units in it's range, were X increases with research.
2. Make the supply wagon less effective in early eages, meaning that it only reduces attrition X%, were X < 100%.

Peersonally I started to prefer my second opinion.
IIRC you can build supply wagons i Classical (II) age.
So my proposoal could be that:
II Classical 75%
III Medival 85%
IV Gunpowder 90%
V Enlightment 95%
VI - VIII 100%

This way one can still attack, but do suffer some attrition.


IIRC: The Supply wagon was in development on RoN a problem - one minute it was in another it wasn't. (Do I remember correctly?) So maybe there still is a small need of adjustment?


Comments, ideas???

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* And how is the game balanced? Just read MS site about supply wagons: http://www.microsoft.com/games/riseo...wagons.asp#top

French Supply vehicles also heal French troops. If you must invade Russia on the cheap, be France.

[Calanor]

Why not simply let the Supply Wagon counter a certain % of the attrition caused? Say that a Supply Wagon would reduce the Attrition effects by 100%. An enemy that has a total Attrition effect of 150% would thus inflict 50% Attrition damage upon your troops even when you're using a Supply Wagon, unless you have in addition researched some Smelter techs, gain special national bonuses or something along those lines. That should give Russia's Attrition bonuses a little more bite.

[Jeje2]

Calanor: Yeah, that sounds even better...
Though I do hope that in Last age(s) VIII (&VII) the supply wagons could counter all the attrition.

But your version is better...

(Oh: And I did forget Germas in Russia in WWII)

[GodSpawn]

There already is a certain element of Supply Wagon's improving with tech. There are several techs that increase the range of a Supply Wagon, so they do get better with tech research.

I think that if Supply Wagons weren't effective in Russian territory, it would make the Russians too powerful (so some additional game balancing would be required).

[Jeje2]

GodSpawn: My idea isn't to make the supply wagons totally ineffective in early game - I only want to reduce their effectivnes.

So that for ex. when one attacks an enemy territory that has a 150% attration level and oneself has a 100% supply effect => your troops would suffer a 50% atttration level. (Instead of 0% as now is if supply wagons joining.)

The supply wagon % could rise with the overall effectivness of supply wagons as currently is.

[One_Dead_Villy]

russian attrition is powerful enough at it is with the supply wagons doing what they do now.

[azalae]

You can always destroy the supply wagons.

Realistic enough approach. No modification needed.

[Jaybe]

Each Supply Wagon counters 50% of remaining attrition.
E.g., Attrition is at Level (X). 1 SW lowers to 50% of X; 2nd SW lowers to 25%; 3rd to 12.5% ...

As an alternative, replace 50% with 33%.

... Better yet, in Russia the SW benefit is halved.

[yin26]

Yeah, I tend to spam my supply wagons (I bring 3 or 4 along) just so I don't lose the benefit if one gets destroyed. I like the idea, though, of the effects coming only in relation to the other guy's attrition tech level. Of course, I'd like a way to counter that ... which perhaps brings us back to Square One.

[DarthVeda]

It might be interesting if the supply wagon suffers attrition damage itself (say 25-50%) but protects the units around it.

[KenR7A]

just kill the SW's. In all of the games that I played when I attacked my friend, he sent everything he had at the supply wagons. They go down in two hits basically. After that, he just watched me fade away.

[Bridger]

There's no *problem* with the supply wagons in the first place.

By the way, didn't napolean fail on his conquest of russia? I seem to remember a little fact that no western army has invaded russia and survived the winter.

[Sarxis]

Yeah, where's the problem with supply wagons? If you want to let your attrition set in, take some light cavalry and flank his wagons.

[Caesar Saladus]

Originally posted by Bridger
There's no *problem* with the supply wagons in the first place.

By the way, didn't napolean fail on his conquest of russia? I seem to remember a little fact that no western army has invaded russia and survived the winter.

Napoleon took Moscow, but he couldn't hold it. It's a common misconception that the Russian winter alone would defeat invaders, it was more a weapon that the Russians used. Both Napoleon and Hitler made it through the winter (after the winter of 41-42 the Germans were still winning the war), it's that the Russians let their enemies penetrate too deep into their territory, and the invaders became proud of their success and pushed too far without securing strong supply lines. Over the winter the Russians destroyed whatever remained of the invaders' supplies, and then afterwards while the enemy was starving, they were unable to fend off the Russian counterattacks.

Sorry for that, I'm just a big fan/student of Russian history.

I like the way that Supply Wagons work now. If you have strong supply lines (represented by having a lot of Wagons), then you don't suffer from the attrition problems. But make sure to protect your Wagons, because they are easy to kill. Sometimes I see opponents enter my nation with only 1 Wagon; just target it fast and they will not likely win the battle. Attrition is meant to punish those who don't properly organize themselves, and who try to push too far too fast. Having a lot of Supply Wagons represents that your army has taken measures to make sure it is receiving supplies, and thus realistically would not suffer from a lack of food or ammunition. Attrition is not meant to destroy armies completely, but simply to make them weaker to fight the defending army.

[Poogas]

Originally posted by Caesar Saladus

Napoleon took Moscow, but he couldn't hold it. It's a common misconception that the Russian winter alone would defeat invaders, it was more a weapon that the Russians used. Both Napoleon and Hitler made it through the winter (after the winter of 41-42 the Germans were still winning the war), it's that the Russians let their enemies penetrate too deep into their territory, and the invaders became proud of their success and pushed too far without securing strong supply lines. Over the winter the Russians destroyed whatever remained of the invaders' supplies, and then afterwards while the enemy was starving, they were unable to fend off the Russian counterattacks.

Sorry for that, I'm just a big fan/student of Russian history.

I like the way that Supply Wagons work now. If you have strong supply lines (represented by having a lot of Wagons), then you don't suffer from the attrition problems. But make sure to protect your Wagons, because they are easy to kill. Sometimes I see opponents enter my nation with only 1 Wagon; just target it fast and they will not likely win the battle. Attrition is meant to punish those who don't properly organize themselves, and who try to push too far too fast. Having a lot of Supply Wagons represents that your army has taken measures to make sure it is receiving supplies, and thus realistically would not suffer from a lack of food or ammunition. Attrition is not meant to destroy armies completely, but simply to make them weaker to fight the defending army.

I agree with basicly everything you just said, Supply wagons are fine the way they are, enough said.

BWT, I agree with the Russian history part aswell It is extremely interesting, a lot happened to their nation through out history, Russian tsars and all.