Albiedamned vs Mythrandir - how strategy beats speed

[Mythrandir_SSTW]

Tonight I played a 1on1 game vs Albiedamned.
It was a 2/3 player Old World map with default victory condictions. Except for that Technology was set to 'slow and expensive'.

I liked the slow tech development: we had several large skirmishes pre-Industrial age, something you won't quickly find in the normal speed games.
I would even suggest playing on very slow and very expensive if you're in for a long (but interesting) game.

Anyway, we ended up controlling half of the map each. Albiedamned always had the larger army, but he couldn't push through my castle.

And like in most RoN games, the big action begins in the industrial age. I managed to build the bigger army, and effectively beat albiedamned's army. But I lacked control of my eco and albiedamned quickly upgraded to the modern age and started nuking my cities. Which hugely set me back in research.

I managed to catch up a little in the end, but his cruise/v2 missiles effectively killed important buildings from my cities. So I decided to trigger armaggedon, I quickly built 3 silos, and spent all my resources on manufacturing 3 nukes and triggered Armageddon.


My speed rating was around 60 (though I had lots of 'panick' clicks since modern age)
his speed rating was around 25

yet another sign on how much strategy matters in this game.
Albiedamned played a strategically much better game, while I compensated my lack thereof with speed.


Have a look at the replay:

[albiedamned]

I don't know if I would say I played a strategically better game necessarily. My strategy for most of the game was basically "damn, my army got destroyed again, better regroup and build more troops". I did get my oil industry going more quickly than you, I think, cause I had planes and tanks out on the battlefield well before you even though we hit industrial around the same time. In retrospect, nuking you was probably a mistake. I forgot about the embargo - I basically couldn't use my market the rest of the game. And I use the market a lot usually.

Basically the whole game was a stalemate. I tried to be sneaky a few times and attack from different directions, but it never worked. I did actually capture a city of yours once, but when I came back to it a few seconds later, almost my entire army was destroyed (I gotta watch the replay myself to see what happened there), so I couldn't hold it.

Anyway, it was an excellent game. I'm used to either playing newbies and dominating them, or getting my butt kicked myself by someone far better than me. This was one of my first truly competetive games where it was close the whole time.

[Mythrandir_SSTW]

Yes it was a good game.

Also, I think there were fewer oil patches on my half, because indeed I was VERY short on oil, all the time.

I'm going to watch the replay tomorrow and check why what happened, hopefully I'll learn something from it



We should play another game, and perhaps make it go no further than enlightment, or industrial

[albiedamned]

Nah, I like modern. Let's just agree not to nuke the crap out of each other. But I do like my cruise missles. . .

[Flayer]

25 albiedamned must have superb strategy!

[albiedamned]

Don't know why it was so low - I'm usually closer to 40. I use tons of hotkeys.

[albiedamned]

I've been watching the replay of my game vs. Mythrandir, and I've discovered several things I did wrong. It boils down to three main things:

1) Lack of aggression. I reached Gunpowder first and had a sizable point lead. I should have attacked right away, but I delayed while "perfecting" my army. Then Mythrandir actually attacked me first after he reached Gunpowder, and his attack was repulsed pretty soundly. I had a huge advantage at this point. I should have immediately charged into his territory on a counterattack, but again I stalled while perfecting my army.

2) Poor, poor scouting. I don't usually manage my scout - I just use Auto-Explore. However my poor scout wandered into enemy territory fairly early and was killed by some Light Cavalry. I never sent out a new unit to explore. It cost me dearly, because I never actually knew where his capital was for most of the game. After my first attack, when I knocked down his fort but retreated after taking heavy losses, I tried again by coming "the other way" around the mountain. Had I known where his capital was, I would have known there was literally nothing to stop me. But instead of heading south to attack the capital, I turned east and went for where I knew his military production buildings (and his quickly rebuilt fort) were. Much later in the game, I attacked along the same front and managed to capture the city in that area (after nuking it twice ). But had I directed that attack south towards the capital instead, there's a good chance I would have had it.

3) Poor use of cavalry. Usually my strategy with cavalry is to charge around the flank and target artillery and supply wagons. However Mythrandir built a force heavy on ranged infantry and light on heavy infantry. My main force was an even mix of the two. He also had a lot of heavy cav while I had almost exclusively light cav. I should have directed my light cav to take out his ranged inf (archers/gunpowder units). Instead, his ranged inf slaughtered my front line heavy inf, allowing his heavy cav in to slaughter my ranged inf and get to my siege weapons and supply wagons. All while my light cav were attacking enemy supply wagons and artillery that really didn't matter since I was the one on the attack.

Watching replays is invaluable. If I get into a good competetive game, I almost always watch the replay later. You can learn a lot from it.

[DarthVeda]

I watch any replay I get beaten in. Then I steal my opponent's strategy.

You will be assimilated! Resistance is futile!

[HalfLotus]

Whenever I download a file from apolyton, it finishes but my winzip comes up emtpy. I search for the file and it doesnt show up. Any ideas why?

Sorry to post it here, cant be bothered to find a help forum.

[albiedamned]

You have to actually left click the link. Right clicking it and doing Save Target As saves the .php page which it redirects to, not the file itself.

[Mythrandir_SSTW]

nice analysis albiedamned.

I haven't watched the replay yet, but I will post my comments on it once I have.


ranged infantry + heavy/light cav is my favorite military setup. Personally I think pikemen are a bit too slow to be a good cover for the archers. And on the other hand my archers are very well able to take out enemy pikemen, after which I can send in my cavalry to slaughter the remaining archers. Well, that's the theory.

Also, you were right you could have gone southwards, around my military fortress, but don't forget I had towers and fortresses across the entire border. So most likely I would've been able to fend off your attack (well that's what I thought when I was playing).
At the moment you went southwards I actually thought you were planning to go for the capital, and I was surprised that you actually stopped to attack my fortress once more.


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and I agree that you could've attacked way earlier and it would have been more likely that you would have won, then.
But on the other hand: you didn't lose as many units as I did, also you had an economical advantage. So it also is a good idea to wait a little longer and have your eco outgrow mine even faster. And it worked very well, especially your surplus of oil (and my lack thereof) won you the game.
Just... be careful with nukes.... you allowed me to trigger armageddon. All around you played a strong game, but the overuse of nukes allowed me to commit kamikazi

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In this game I learned one thing that I put to use when playing against Altus: make sure that your production of all sources is way over the cap. So when the enemy nukes or captures one city of yours, you're still maxed out (except for knowledge).

[albiedamned]

Regarding your capital, what I meant was that there was no military units between me and it. Yes you had towers, but they weren't going to stop me by themself. Your military would have gotten there eventually of course, but I probably could have already started hitting it with my artillery by the time you got there. Whether I could have held it after capturing it, we'll never know. But it's all moot, cause I didn't even know it was there!

Regarding the end game, I was not in nearly as advantageous a position as you thought. My score was higher, but my military was a disorganized band of rapidly dying units. I couldn't seem to get an organized formation together again, and you kept making incursions towards my capital. All I really had left at the end that was working was my cruise missles. My resource production was way down, thanks I think to all the civilians you killed on your incursions (note to self - don't forget to build new civilians to replace dead ones even in the end game!). I nuked you because I was feeling very threatened myself. Armageddon was a perfectly accetpable outcome to me. I probably would have caused it if you hadn't.