AI Improvements: The Poly Peanut Gallery Speaks!

[yin26]

In many single player games, I often feel that the AI problems are so severe that it's a huge can of worms to try to suggest improvements. With RoN, however, I often find myself saying "Gee, if the AI only did this or that a little differently, that would be stunning."

In that spirit, could you all periodically come here and jot down what you wished the AI had done differently? For the record, at least on slow speed, I'm now able to take on two "Tough" AIs at once ... which only goes to say that I think with a few tweaks, those AIs would beat me.

Suggestions:

1) I'm thrilled that the AI is capable of some early raids with fairly sizeable armies. However, they seem to attack the most forward-built structure. Now, if that happens to be a city with lots of resource-gathering going on, you're more likely to have some trouble. But I now always have my forward-most structures in the early game be a tower and a barracks. I fill the tower with archers and produce a half dozen or so ground troops as backup.

Sure enough in my game last night against 2 AIs, in rolls their raiding parties ... but they stop right at my tower and stay there, slowly getting chewed up. Had those same armies avoided my towers completely, they could have stolled right into the heart of my resource-gathering operation ... which really would have put the hurt on me in so many ways!

This behavior is also present in human players who haven't learned this key lesson: It's the economy, stupid! (Quoting Clinton). Killing 5 or 10 enemy villies will gain you far, far more than killing 1 enemy tower. Not only that, the enemy will likely ring his village bell, effectively stopping the resource-gathering for an entire city. In which case, the AI should move on to the next city. Rinse and repeat until it has finally lost all its units, but likely only after having wreaked some serious havoc.

So, please have the AI raid in this way rather than line up for target practice! I'm convinced this will --without cheating-- give the AI a much, much greater edge in the early game.

[Mythrandir_SSTW]

When I get attacked by the AI at the capital, I usually don't pull my forces back to my capital, but attack his city instead. This will always force the AI to pull back and defend.

It would be nice if the AI would understand the 'Power of Sacrifice' -> lose a secondary or tertiary city to me, but conquer the capital.

[DarthVeda]

The AI needs to learn that its bad to use nukes so liberally and how to use cruise missiles instead. So often the ticker goes to 1 because the AI's will nuke like crazy until then.

So it's funny when somebody researches the missile defense shield because the ticker goes to 3, and every AI launches whatever stockpile they've amassed since it isn't 1 anymore. Game over man.

[PTM]

I think it'd be nice to see the AI pull off some semi-advanced tactics like flanking with unit types calibrated for doing so.

I'm a novice at RoN, having only played about 4 games of it, but so far the comps (at least on "moderate") haven't flanked even once.

I'd like to have it so I'm sitting there, slowly cutting my way through heavy infantry thinking I'm so smart and then looking to see 20 heavy knights gallopping at the undefended backside of my troops. The shock I'd feel...classic.

- PTM

[Demerzel]

yeah even a single ungarrisoned fortress on the edge of your territory nearest to the enemy is often enough to stop the enemy invading until they have a large invasion force backed by siege weapons. Which gives plenty of time to build a force to repel them for the by the loss of a mere fort in the worst case scenario.

It would be annoying but very funky if the enemy could just bypass strongholds and move on the undefended cities just past the defences.

[Jeje2]

having played a few quick battles on fairy easy levels (up to normal) and slow speeds, with no rush - I have one big complain.

The AI builds way too many libraries, barracks, etc...
So far I have managed very well with one of each, thus leaving the hardearned resources to upgrades, research, wonders and units. (Oh, and forts - love them...)

[Mythrandir_SSTW]

Personally I tend to go with 2 or 3 librararies.

And you definately need to go for 2 or more of each military building if you want to pull of an attack by a Tough AI.

As someone in BHG has said, the Easy AI will counter with the wrong units. And that's why you manage to keep up with only 1 barracks.

[yin26]

The AI doesn't seem aggressive enough in building some key wonders. For example, the Collosus: this baby, which comes early in the game and is relatively cheap, raises your pop limit by 50! Man, I can't tell you how important this is...for example, I use a 150 pop limit. With this wonder, though, I've got 200 while the AIs are stuck at 50 lower.

This allows me to field an entire 50 'unit' army without having to pull a single villager off resource gathering. In my mind, this makes the game almost too easy, yet the computer never seem to make Collosus a priority. The same for Versailles -- which is ENORMOUSLY important in having units heal in the radius of a general. Man, these two wonders together make you a virtual killing machine!

Toss in the Eiffle Tower, which ups your oil production and pushes out your borders ... well, game over.

It seems like the AI is only building wonders when it has left over resources or something? In any event, it really *must* make some of these wonders a priority in order to give a human player a better challenge. Thanks!

[Solver]

In my experience, AI builds them wonders late. I've seen it start the Colossus in Englithement. Needless to say, I can by then get anything I want.

Colossus = crucial. Versailles = crucial. Statue of Liberty = crucial. Eiffel = crucial.

[yin26]

Solver: Yes, that seems to be the pattern. What a pity! Perhaps playing on 'Tougher' will give the AI greater incentive to put its added resources to wonders earlier?

[Carch]

I wonder if the 150 pop. limit is hampering the AI's ability to collect all the resources it needs. It could be that it's tuned to go for broke, and limiting its population is cramping its style.

[Solver]

What 150 pop limit? AI has the same pop limit as you do.

[Palpatine]

The biggest weakness are the early attacks imho. I built near every city a tower and have attrition up to date. So every atack without siege units is nuts. I dont built any units till the third age. The ai wastes so many recourses on these raids so that it cant keep up with building wonders and do research. So I have during the enlightment age a big enough advantage to take the offensive (with Terra Cotta of course). That is on though settings.

Tougher is another story. The ai cheats on ressources that much that it can attack constantly but still have no probs to keep up in research. Quite interesting games on this setting. Your spys are expellt faster as you can send them in

[JimMac]

Originally posted by Palpatine
Tougher is another story. The ai cheats on ressources that much that it can attack constantly but still have no probs to keep up in research. Quite interesting games on this setting. Your spys are expellt faster as you can send them in

I dont have RON yet, but intend to buy it soon, as do my two brothers. So, a silly question >does the ai cheat on resources on 'tougher' level? I thought I read somewhere that the AI simply plays 'better' on this level without cheats.

[Carch]

Check out this post from Brian:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2019674#post2019674

FYI the "Moderate" level is actually not the highest of the AI-doesn't-cheat levels--for that you want "Tough" level. At Moderate level the AI, believe it or not, pulls some of its punches in terms of aggressiveness [...] "Tough" is specced as the level at which the AI plays its "best game" without cheating.

At Tougher & Toughest level the AI does actually get a resource & unit-speed advantage (kind of like giving a skill handicap to a human player in multiplayer) so watch out!