How do you beat the AI's navy?

[bratsch_m]

I'm finding that I can crush the AI in land battles, but at the sea they just own me. My ships die so fast, and it seems like they are just non-stop pumping them out. Unless I have 3-4 docks on infinity build of heavy warships and fireships, they will overwhelm me at the sea easily. And this is just on Moderate.

I have to have dozens and dozens of ships just so I can sail across the sea. But then that really cuts into my ground force and makes it hard to invade their island. How do you beat the AI's fleet?

[Jaybe]

Intense naval warfare is eventually won by destroying their production capacity. You HAVE to knock out their docks unless you can reduce their building in some other way (timber or oil production).

For this reason (after only 2 games with this environment), invasion seems to be delayed until bombers arrive. With aircraft you also can FIND their docks as they are rebuilt.

I have yet to try a sneak invasion or use of explorers/commandos to raze their docks. In both my games with "East meets West" large maps (3 or 4 opponents) I had an obliging next-door neighbor who was behind in development that allowed me a landing on their continent virtually unopposed.

[Inverse Icarus]

the key to fleets are the same thing to land battles, you need a diverse fleet.

every ship has a strength, and a counter. the AI will have pretty much a diverse fleet, meannig they have a counter for everything, but also have all the weaknesses. you just have to identify what ships to attack with what ships, and keep control groups of specialized ships.

also, and this works better in MP games, build a city on their island if possible. it's hillarious, and bypasses the navy for a while (until they realize they can bombard the hell out of you).

[ChaotikVisions]

Heh, once you win a major naval battle in the later ages don't destroy his docks. Plant subs by them and see how long it takes him to notice. Use your other ships to scout out for new docks being built and to harass him.

[albiedamned]

I don't think that's a good strategy. The moment he builds a light ship he will not only spot your sub but sink it as well. Destroy his docks, then you don't have to worry about a naval counterattack and you can bombard his buildings at will.

[ChaotikVisions]

I didn't mean one sub, you've got to have several to actually block it. But it'll get maybe one attack off before it goes down from fire. 4-6 subs will take anything down quick. And this way hes wasting resources while keeping an eye on the docks he has left. Worst case scenario is he wastes resources finding other ways to kill the subs while your ships have free reign. If you start to lose subs you still have the option of kill the docks.

[bratsch_m]

I think I'd only really do that in multiplayer. You don't really get the same satisfaction from toying with AIs as you do toying with buddies.

Speaking of which one of my pals really, really stinks. He patrols the seas with task forces of 1 ship. He set his rally point to the middle of the ocean; I destroyed his fleet and parked my armada there. For the rest of the game he kept building ships, but didn't move the rally point so they'd sail out there one at a time and get blasted out of the water. Afterwards I asked him what the heck he was doing, and he blamed it on "the stupid rally point".

But the AI is just merciless with its navy. I would never allow them to keep a shipyard; I would destroy any that I ever find. I wouldn't trust my subs to be able to hold out; I just know that they'd find some way to clear it out. If they had a couple fighters do an air mission out there, wouldn't they see the subs and sink them, with the subs unable to do anything? Then they could use that dock to rebuild their fleet and retake control of the seas, which would mean a naval superiority battle all over again.

[PrinceBimz]

If you have the tech, build aircraft carriers. They come with 7 aircraft right after they are built. They can sink ships at far range and do wonders on land battles too. I always play sea maps and the AI fights well nearly everytime. There are usually many AI ships all over. You just have to fight hard just like you are playing online. Many times I get outnumbered and have to start building land based air to help fight against ships in the sea.

[Solver]

It was killing me first, too. I could beat land Moderate AI, but got owned at sea, and delayed the big invasions till the Modern age.

Now, I play on Tough, and beat the Ai on any map. Naval ones aren't easy, but still... Bomb vessels are good for destroying their Docks and coastline improvements, remember those.

[albiedamned]

Bomb vessels have worked wonders for me on maps that have water but aren't necessarily sea maps, like Warring States or Mediterannean. The opposing navy, whether AI or human, is usually not as big on those maps since navy isn't strictly necessary. So you can gain naval dominance much more easily, then use bomb vessels to take out buildings and cities near the coast. And nothing can stop you!!! I've won games this way.

[PrinceBimz]

Originally posted by albiedamned
Bomb vessels have worked wonders for me on maps that have water but aren't necessarily sea maps, like Warring States or Mediterannean. The opposing navy, whether AI or human, is usually not as big on those maps since navy isn't strictly necessary. So you can gain naval dominance much more easily, then use bomb vessels to take out buildings and cities near the coast. And nothing can stop you!!! I've won games this way.

You are right! I sometimes build about 3 docks and rally point all three near an enemy coast. I build several bomb vessels in each dock. When they are built they travel straight to the rally point and begin to open fire on buildings and ground targets. I did find out though many times the AI will respond to this by bringing other ships to fight your bomb vessels. Sometimes it will use artillery and planes too. I like just doing it quickly as sort of a surprise attack, bust them up and get out.

[albiedamned]

Yes, bomb vessels are weak to pretty much everything, so you have to make sure you achieve naval dominance first. And yes, coastal artillery is a threat to your ships including bomb vessels, but as long as you pay attention, it's easy to overcome. Just move your ships on to another target. The artillery takes time to pack, and then is slow to move. Your ships can move around to new targets much faster than the artillery as long as you notice the fact that they are being targetted by artillery in time to move them.

[xRamses]

Without destroying the AI's docks on a regular basis I find it very tough to keep sea dominance. The fire-ships will typically massacre my ships if I turn my attention away from my fleet.

But the nice thing about fire-ships is that it works both ways. So if you find yourself getting pounded by the AI's navy send him a few fire-ships and that oughta take care of it.

[Solver]

FireShips are a very double-edged sword. True, they absolutely kill heavy ships, but are helpless against light ships. I love how BHG balanced sea combat, making all types of ships necessary. Still, I usually find myself building mostly Light ships, because the AI seems to employ them Fireships a lot. And, as soon as you can, take Bomb vessels and go for his Docks.

[Mahdimael]

The problem with the "wait" strategy is if you're playing a game where you've limited the age advancement. I wanted to play until the enlightenment age, on an island map (sort of a caribbean type fight against Spain and France, with myself as the English). Ship-to ship combat could have been handled better, I think- more than any other part of the game, it's paper-rock-scissors, though some tactics work better than others. Create a screen of light ships in front of your heavy ships, flank the enemy with fire ships/subs.

Ship combat is too similar to the land combat, for my tastes, and fire ships are way too powerful against heavy ships. It would have been cool to see some new mechanic for sea combat, like wind or boarding or something.