Why *YOU* Should Buy Rise of Nations...

[Solver]

Yes, but everyone still needs to understand that it's not a TBS game. Don't expect RoN to be TBS, or you will be disappointed. It just borrows quite havily, although indeed, turning the speed down might be of interest.

[Whitra]

Doesn't seem like many people here use the pause button enough-but then again, it also sounds like most of the people here are multiplayer oriented. The pause button, in my opinion, takes care of all the problems with overly complex play, at least in single player.

Thanks for the spiel, Yin, I'm playing the game in a completely different light since reading that.

[Inverse Icarus]

multiplayer hardcore!!!!1!

i just nuked some poor bastard still in the Enlightenment age. that radioactive mushroom cloud sure enlightened his ass.

[Solver]

Doesn't seem like many people here use the pause button enough-but then again, it also sounds like most of the people here are multiplayer oriented. The pause button, in my opinion, takes care of all the problems with overly complex play, at least in single player.

Hardly. Most people here are Civ players, and that's a single-player oriented game. And for us, a game can't be too complex.

[Enriquillo]

Great review Yin.

I'd like to make a few comments, coming from a TBS turned RTS player

Gamespeed is relatively slow compared to say AoK. On fast it's about equal to AoK's standard gamespeed.
Playing on 10 times slower speed would just be annoying IMO.

Autotransporting significantly takes away strategy from watermaps. You just need one dock and you can instantly swim from one island to the other without needing to plan ahead and bring a navy. The dock doesn't even have to be near, it could be on the other side of the world, this bothers me to the point that I'll not play many island games (my favorite in other RTS).

The notion that RTS is for speedfreaks really baffles me, if there's anyone here who thinks that civ3 for instance requires more thinking than AoK, they're deadwrong. I've played all Civ games and AC and there's no more strategy in those than there is in AoK or EE, it's just slower folks You have more time to implement a decent strategy, which will probably be better because you're not under time pressure.
Just try playing Civ online with a timelimit, it's so much fun. Sure you make a lot of mistakes, but so does your opponent.

And finally, Yin , what makes you think AoK is a thing of the past. There are still thousands of online players everyday playing a variety of different setts and maps.

[Solver]

There are still thousands of online players everyday playing a variety of different setts and maps.

There are still many AoK players, but most play the same map .

[Boris Godunov]

Nice work, Yin. A very good essay.

However, as I said in the other thread, an RTS is an RTS. I think RoN looks like it will become one of the best RTSes of all, and RTS fans should be very pleased. I am not enticed, though. The RTS genre wore on me quickly, and while I won't disparage the work they've done on RoN, I just don't see it as bringing me back into it. The mechanics remain the same, with a lot of needed improvement, but its the mechanics that I'm bored with. Not for me.

But for RTS fans, sounds like you guys are in luck!

[olaf]

The notion that RTS is for speedfreaks really baffles me, if there's anyone here who thinks that civ3 for instance requires more thinking than AoK, they're deadwrong. I've played all Civ games and AC and there's no more strategy in those than there is in AoK or EE, it's just slower folks.

You have more time to implement a decent strategy, which will probably be better because you're not under time pressure. Just try playing Civ online with a timelimit, it's so much fun. Sure you make a lot of mistakes, but so does your opponent

Come on man.

It boils down to the fact that handeye coordination plays a big role in RTS games. If you cant whip the mouse around and bang hotkeys like dialing a touch tone phone, you are going to get hammered by the guy who can.

You can have a kickass 'strategy' but if you cant work the game efficiently enough via efficient mousing and hotkey use and pay attention to the entire map, you will lose.

On the otherhand handeye coordination plays no part in a TB game.

Huge difference there.

olaf

[Rohag]

Absolutely sterling essay, yin26!

But only time will tell if enough of the jaded RTSers and enough of the guarded TBSers will give the game the chance it richly deserves.

Given the huge number of play options in Rise of Nations, I agree the game has tremendous potential to please a wide range of gamers. Response to the demo seems mixed, but that may be due to the disappointed folks being more willing to post and the pleased too busy playing.

[Altex]

How come you don't think that most people will disconnect from multiplayer games because of massive units, massive lagggg!!!!!!!

[Bridger]

Originally posted by olaf

In talking about formations/generals you neglected to mention how stupid individual units are. Calvary will charge pikemen, despite there being more appealing targets within range. Heavy infantry will chase missle troops. Its ridiculous really, especially when the mouseover text displays the strengths of a unit and you have to sit there and watch them ignore those same strengths and expose their weaknesses. VS the computer its not so much of a problem because the AI units seem to be just as retarded. VS a human though, its back to mouse skills. If you have experience with other RTS games and micromanaging armies, you are going to clean house vs someone who doesnt, or perhaps doesnt have the hand-eye coordination that a fast paced RTS like this requires.

olaf

I agree with you here, unit's should analyze the units within a certain distance to find the most prospective target. However, no other RTS games have done this, so why are you complaining that it's not in RoN?

[Bridger]

Originally posted by olaf


That brings me to healing. Your anecdote about Reynolds and his AoK game is ironic. Why in the hell dont buildings/units have a healing range in RON(except the French...)? It is such a goddamn pain to heal units, it defies putting into words here. But I will try. You have to find a building that can garrison troops and send your men there, manually. You have to do the reverse when they are healthy. Ugh. It might not sound bad, but it really is more trouble than its worth when you are trying to manage that fourth city and trying to fight a two front war. So much so that I just let the poor bastards die, and I suspect most ppl will do the same, which kind of offsets the whole attrition behind enemy lines thing. My guys know that once they cross over that border, they better do some serious fighting or they are gonna be buried in enemy territory.
olaf

I agree here as well. What i would really like to see is a "heal" command for your units. They find the nearest garasinable building, heal up, and return to their original position when they are done. Of course they'd have to be smart enough to go "gosh, this barracks seems full, i'll find the next closest building insted."

Based on the situation i've seen regarding the BHG devs (they post and read in every forum i've seen), this is a very posible patch fix. All we have to do is ask for it enough. The devs really respond well to the community, which is one of the reasons i'm buying this game. I'm tired of dev teams that ignore their community and only talk through the publisher. BHG actually communicates with us and gives us their POV on things, and they take what we say into consideration too.

[Bridger]

Originally posted by Enriquillo

Autotransporting significantly takes away strategy from watermaps. You just need one dock and you can instantly swim from one island to the other without needing to plan ahead and bring a navy.

Don't mislead people Enriquillo, if you don't have a navy your enemy will own those transports. Transports are weak and slow. Any castles/towers on the coast will probably kill half your invasion force if you don't bring a navy along, and if the enemy is blockading your island with patroling boats he'll find and kill 3/4 of your invasion force if you don't have a navy to defend it.

[Sarxis]

I think the main reason why I should buy RoN is because I like it.

Like = purchase. Dislike = well, purchase, but much whining later on.

[DarthVeda]

Originally posted by olaf


Come on man.

It boils down to the fact that handeye coordination plays a big role in RTS games. If you cant whip the mouse around and bang hotkeys like dialing a touch tone phone, you are going to get hammered by the guy who can.

You can have a kickass 'strategy' but if you cant work the game efficiently enough via efficient mousing and hotkey use and pay attention to the entire map, you will lose.

On the otherhand handeye coordination plays no part in a TB game.

Huge difference there.

olaf

Uh, I've played several 5+ hour Age of Kings games and I have to say that anybody who thinks there is more strategy in a Civ3 game is kidding themselves. I definately see the same potential in RoN