Loved civ2 & moo2, love civ3, MUST I buy Moo3 ??

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

After having read too many negative reviews on moo3, the unimaginable happened: I haven't bought it yet and at this stage I even ... don't feel willing to!

It was a game I was looking forward to ...

So I mainly direct myself to those people who also loved civ2 and moo2, and now are pretty happy with civ3 and PTW (if so, we kind of share same taste )

Shall I get disappointed with the game, or will it unfold into a new exciting absorbing gameplay adventure as games mentioned above? Shall I disappointedly put the game aside after I've tasted it, or will it - like the civ series - still fascinate and absorb me?

Is moo2 better? (mind you, I think civ3 is an improvement to civ2)

Questions, questions, questions ...
Help me out guys

Now !!!! ?

AJ

[krait23]

I loved Civ2. While Civ3 is not neccessarily a huge improvement over it, I do greatly enjoy Civ3 too. Its a small step away from Civ2, but to me its a sidestep.

I loved MoO2 more than almost any other game (along with Wizardry 7 which is my best game ever, Star Control 2 and Elite and Pirates back in the late 80ies, MoO2 resides among my unsorted Top5 games ever).

MoO3 is a huge leap away from MoO2. And while some people seem to be able to enjoy it, to me that leap is no sidestep but a downfall. If you read reviews you will know what the people criticize so I won't repeat it here. All I can say that after climbing the so called learning 'cliff' (which didnt seem high at all to me though) the game was simply no fun because I found my own contribution to the game somewhat missing and many features are so much worse than in MoO2 (ship design, combat, building queues) that its only one thing, frustrating.

That being said, I am a builder fellow who plays Civ as xenophobic isolationist who avoids other civilizations as long as possible and instead deeply cares for every single aspect of his own civilization. Maybe if you enjoy Diplomacy and constant combat, you might like MoO3, because those are the only fields where you actually matter as player. Even though they messed those areas up too, I think they will be fixed with a patch.

Anyway, long story short(er) advice:
By all means try the game out before buying it. If you were a huge MoO2 fan you run a high risk of being disappointed by MoO3. You might like it though, so test it if you can. If you can't, my advice is not to buy it. For a Civ and MoO2 fan, Galactic Civilizations sounds a lot more like the perfect game, combining aspects of both. Whether its good or bad I can't say because I haven't played and I will never ever again assume a game must be good only because it looks appealing or it holds a famous name.

[RGBVideo]

You DON'T HAVE to do anything in this life, except to die...

[Proteus_MST]

I really liked the Civ - Series (also CtP, where I modded a lot) and also Civ3 (which has its faults, but some of them could also be avoided by modding the game).
As for MOO2 I ran to my favorite Games Shop every few days til the Shop Owner had pity with me and brought me the Original Version of the game from a convention (maybe 4-6 month before the german version of the game was released in germany). And yes, I spent hours playing it.

As for MOO3:
It is absolutely different from the previous game of the MOO-Series, so I can only second kraits advice to test it before you buy it.

I like the game and I think people who in the CtP-Series liked to create their own mods will like it also.
Important values for the game are within textfiles in compressed folders and, as long as there is no good manual for the game [they´re working on it], the textfiles are a good source to understand the underlying mechanics of the game and to get important stats (for example Weapons Stats and the like).
It seems to be a game wherew the opinion is totally divided, some people like it, other hate it. But if you want to like it, prepare to first spand a lot of hours understanding its principles and the User Interface of the game.
But if you like it, you will spend hour after hour playing it (such as myself )

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Thanks for the input so far.

Proteus, is the users interface really so time absorbing/annoying as mentioned in some reviews?

Krait23, in my games I'm both a builder and a warfarer, not isolationist at all. How are the battles in this game compared to Moo2? More challenging?
Some of the games you've mentioned I too have really enjoyed a lot: Elite and Pirates. Sill waiting for a worthy follow-up for Elite (Freelancer is said to be good, but rather 'easy' according to many, and not so innovative compared to what we have seen so far). Port Royale (bought it, but haven't played yet) ought to be a worthy successor for The good,old Pirates, that i before have played on Atari. Galactic Civilizations? Checking out on that one ...

Tuomerehu, I hope I can delay the die-ing aspect for a while ...

AJ

[Jamski]

Well, its worth looking at, quite good fun, pretty good at eating time up, but not perfect. Wait untill the first patch, and then buy it. It won't be perfect then, but it will still be one of the best space games about. (What is it with this genre producing turkeys?)

-Jam

[Mannamagnus]

Wait for Galactic Civilizations (it will come out on 26/3). Check their website where you can also download the manual which is great fun to read (http://www.galciv.com/).
If you look at how this game was made and will be constantly evolving this game is likely to be the best TBS game since SMAC or maybe even since Civ2.
I'm an avid fan of TBS games but I would absolutely advice against buying MoO3 before first trying it.

[krait23]

Battles in MoO3... I didn't have too many because I really didn't like them much.
You control task forces instead of individual ships. Ships are tiny dots hardly recongizeable, which fire other dots at each other. It is realtime, but there is no pause option. You can't view the status of idividual ships.

While in MoO2 you actually directly commanded your ships, in MoO3 you are more of a guide who can give some orders and watch how they unfold. Not the kind of combat I like.

I played freelancer too... Has some parallels to MoO3 as in being long overdue and not nearly fullfilling the expectations. It is definitely not a successor to Elite. It is some good fun to play through the campaign though, but not really worth its money imo. I spent more time with it than with MoO3 though.

Wonder why noone runs a massively multiplayer online Elite universe... There must be a huge fanbase for that (if its based on the original Elite, not Frontier) and the Elite ships really don't require a graphical masterpiece heheh...

As for Port Royale, its too easy I think. I played it once, was some fun, but never again. Unlike pirates which is still fun even after 15+ years.

Lata
Krait

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR
Thanks for the input so far.

Proteus, is the users interface really so time absorbing/annoying as mentioned in some reviews?

Krait23, in my games I'm both a builder and a warfarer, not isolationist at all. How are the battles in this game compared to Moo2? More challenging?
Some of the games you've mentioned I too have really enjoyed a lot: Elite and Pirates. Sill waiting for a worthy follow-up for Elite (Freelancer is said to be good, but rather 'easy' according to many, and not so innovative compared to what we have seen so far). Port Royale (bought it, but haven't played yet) ought to be a worthy successor for The good,old Pirates, that i before have played on Atari. Galactic Civilizations? Checking out on that one ...

Tuomerehu, I hope I can delay the die-ing aspect for a while ...
AJ

The User Interface is something you´ve got to get used to.
In the first few games you will really have to search for things, because they often aren´t where you expect them to be.
But as you gain in experience you will more and more know where things are.

Another thing with the UI is, that it often is really a click feast.
To change the military Building queue of a Planet for example you have to first click onto the Planet, then open the economics menu and then click at the military Building queue.
But help is underway as the coming patch will also include a somewhat more streamlined user interface.


As for Combats:
As many other apspects of the game they, too, are completely different from MOO2.
Where MOO2 was modelled around Ship to Ship Combat, MOO3 is modelled around Taskforce Battles.
You build Taskforces for certain Missions, for example Longrange Attack (the Mission Ships stay at the largest Range of their Beam Weapons and fire at the enemy), Indirect Fire (Ships which fire Missiles at the enemy and try to stay out of the Range of their Beamweapons), or Carrier (the same things the USA possess, a fleet assembled around a Carrir which launches Fighter and the like).
The Sizes of the fleets can (unmodded) range from a small Detachment (1-2 Ships) to a whole Armada (up to 18 Ships) and especially with large sizes of the fleet there have to be several requirements which have to be met, for example a minimum Number of Ships which are build for the Mission of the fleet, or a minimum number of ships within the Escort and Picket ring (The Fleet has several Rings. In the Core there are the Mission Ships, the next Ring is the Escort Ring, where you have things like Point Defense Ships, which protect the fleet from fighters and missiles and in the outer ring, the picket ring, you can find Recon Ships, which are the eyes of the fleet and help you to spot the enemy).

Although different from MOO2 I think fleet Battles are stil fun (especially against worthxy enemies ) but at the moment there is a small Bug with Point Defense Weaponry, which sometimes makes your PD-Weapons not fire at a volley of Missiles, so missiles are somoehow more powerful than they should be (there is a workaround that helps a bit, but the enemy AI doesn´t use it, so it gives you an advantage).
But as the PD-Bug hopefully will be fixed with the next patch (thqey are working on it) it will surely get better.

One other thing is, that the AI at the moment isn´t very agressive and even if at war with you, seldom starts Invasions at your Planets, but this one will also be fixed with the patch (the Agressiveness was intentionally tuned down prior to release because some Betatesters thought, the AI would be way too agressive ).

So, as War of the Art says, the Game will suely be much better with the first patch at hand. The Fixlist for the Patch looks very promising (you can find it at the Helpsection of the Infogrames MOO3- Board)

[PDifolco]

I don't have the answer but am in the same situation (only I didn't get Civ3... ) !
For my part I'll skip MOO3 until price drop seriously, but will get GalCiv ASAP on Wednesday - it looks MUCH more promising and at least we know what we would get thanks to the gazillions infos, documentation and replays Brad & al gave us Best of all it'll be downloadable so I won't even wait to get it

[wilebill]

Wait for the patch would be good advice, I think. I have about 25 hours in the game, I like it but so I am waiting for the patch too. Try Galciv while waiting sounds like good advice.

MOO3 is potentially what it was initially hyped to be, the greatest space strategy game of all time.

[Boris Godunov]

GalCiv will have, unlike MOO3, a demo released in early April, so you can even check that out before deciding to buy it.

[wilebill]

Five minutes after posting my message above, GalCiv arrived by FedEx, so I will soon know, day or two and time permitting, whether or how GalCiv compares. GalCiv is now shipping, preorders at least.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by wilebill
Five minutes after posting my message above, GalCiv arrived by FedEx, so I will soon know, day or two and time permitting, whether or how GalCiv compares. GalCiv is now shipping, preorders at least.

OoooOOOOOoooh look at you. We expect a comprehensive review soon.

[smellymummy]

limited poll choices... but really, if you like the TBS genre, get moo3.