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**notyoueither** · March 12, 2003, 21:09

A patched AI will help. You can mod it yourself to make it more aggressive, but...

The PD bug is a bit of a pain. Makes competing with the AI even easier...

Then there is the fact that many actions from a turn are not saved until after the next end turn sequence. That combined with all the messages from a turn being missing when you load a save can make management a bit interesting, depending on when you save it...

These are all things that can be fixed. Once they are fixed it might be a good game. The makings are there, unless you hate the interface or the management model so much that you can never like the game.

**vmxa1** · March 12, 2003, 21:18

Yes I woudl really appreciate a save that saves everythingat the time I used it.
Worse, when you load later, you do not get the sitrep, so you have to look at everything to figure out what need reactions.
Is there a way to see the last sitrep after a load? In Moo2 you could look at the last summary log.

**ShackledEidolon** · March 12, 2003, 21:33

Well your earlier bugs/problems never really bothered me that much. The save thing did bother me a bit. However, it didn't really seem to be important to know what actually had just taken place. The only parts that seemed to offer any control or fun were ship design and ground combat. In MOO II I really enjoyed building my planets up creating productive/research capable etc planets that did what I wanted them to do. Shipping food from one place to the other if it was more efficient, moving people from here to there because it was more efficient, getting techs that would help make my small number of colonies as good or better then the enemies 10-20. Seems like with this game they decided to scrap all of the empire building aspects completely out of the game and leave only combat. Don't get me wrong I like combat and I like seeing how my ship designs function and how I can make them better for later fights but if thats all the game had to offer then I would just switch to another type of game. Having everything automated for you aside from sending ships and diplomacy means that all I care about is what new weapon I have and what kind of shield I can steal from my enemy. I'll admit...I am not impressed by the interface or the management model...but if there was any hope of some control in the game or better feedback to let you know how your sliders were changing things (preferably somewhere close to the same screen) then it would almost be a fun game again. As is it just seems like a really complex antfarm where I get to decide to blow up the other ant farm.

Anyways thanks for some quick feedback. What did you think of MOO 2 and what was your initial reaction to MOO 3?

**Eric S** · March 12, 2003, 22:25

I dove into MoO 2 right away and got it. I'm not great at it, but I enjoyed it from the very beginning.

It took a while to reach the point in MoO 3 where I wasn't cussing under my breath trying to find a certain option that I know I had seen. Theres still things that I don't know how to do, and I'm on turn 880 of my 4th game (playing in the largest galaxy with senate victory turned off can lead to a very long game if you're not aggressive early on). That said, I started enjoying most of the time I spent playing MoO 3 after about 10 hours.

**Chronus** · March 12, 2003, 23:56

This thread kind of reminds me of Europa Universalis. I'm jealous of those of just LOVE this game because I've been trying to feel the same way toward it for 1 1/2 years now. Not that I hate it, I just find it so so.

Shackled, it may very well be easier (and safer for your sanity) to simply accept it, assuming you've given MOO3 a decent chance.

**notyoueither** · March 13, 2003, 00:06

I think I've conquered the empire management thing, for myself in SP at least. First, I set some very broad Dev Plans using mostly only the secondary and tertiary positions. That should really screw me up because the AI will go nuts with the blank primaries, right? Nope.

As I colonize each system I manually set all the DEAs. I look at the variables, check my Imperial balances of production/consumption, and decide if the world will be a general, industrial, mining, agri, or research centre. With the first position blank for all plans I found the AI actually builds everything. It didn't before I found this.

Then every 50 turns or so, a couple of planets can be reviewed and changed from general to specialised if Imperial balances allow. Just rip out the non specialised DEAs and go back next turn to manually place the desired specialised ones. A rebuild option would be very welcome, HINT, HINT, QuickSilver.

Actually, I am finding the management a nice balance right now. I can focus a lot of my attention on a given system or two, and rely on the AI to build all the what nots everywhere else.

I pay a lot of attention to the military build ques. With the Sit Rep I find I can cycle through the planets I want to pay attention to quickly. I use that and the Planets Summary Screen to look for systems colonized, colony ships departing, and systems about to produce or just produced a military item. A combination of the two.

The fleet section of the Shipyard screen tells me where all I have units that are ready for a destination. The map scrolls like a pig when zoomed out, so this helps too.

I liked MoO2, but haven't played it much for a long time. I liked it right away, but life intruded for an extended period.

MoO3 made me stand off at first. Too be honest, I am not enamoured with it yet. I think it will be a good game if they patch it properlly, or if the community unlocks all the secrets. However, the community can only unlock so much before problems with the exe remain. I really hope that QS can stick it out and finish this thing. I am hopeful, because I can see potential.

**Crostoneman** · March 13, 2003, 00:10

I have a great imagination. I just don't find myself just being a lazy bum clicking turn button over and over again. I make myself feel the raw power of a Klackon emperor ordering a task force to destroy a rival colony ship and still have time for jello in the morning.

**notyoueither** · March 13, 2003, 00:13

Actually, I like the fleet stuff. It could be more detailed on the ship graphics, but I've heard the game crawls when large armadas of carriers get involved. More detail, more crawl. Anyways, I like the overview. Maybe I'm a mutant.

**vmxa1** · March 13, 2003, 02:12

Originally posted by ShackledEidolon
Anyways thanks for some quick feedback. What did you think of MOO 2 and what was your initial reaction to MOO 3?

Not sure who this was addressed to, but I love Moo2 and paly it often.
I was not thrilled by my experience wit Moo3, but I am getting some fun out of it. The comabt is fun.
I know I will be playing a lot more Moo1 and Moo2 than Moo3 down the road. If for no other reason the game is too long if you do not want to go to the senate.
All lots of the small things will be fixable and that woujld have made a better first impression, but I fear this is not going to be for everyone regardless.

**DarthVeda** · March 13, 2003, 03:43

Maybe you folks can answer me this: What is the point of attacking Guardians, or the New Orions? There's nothing of any noteworthy value in their systems as far as I know...

**Grumbold** · March 13, 2003, 06:17

You can find an X in any guarded system, but its random. In games where I've killed all 5 guardians and taken on the NO's I usually get a couple of X's that way plus some of the usual randoms on the guarded planets.

What I like about the game is the real feeling of running a massive empire. In MOO2 you'd have 15 micromanaged planets and a fleet or two of 10 micromanaged space ships to inflict death on your enemies. In MoO3 you can set general policies and macromanage 150 planets and armadas of over a hundred space ships each. Its the feeling of scale that appeals, and you can only get that if you're prepared to allow the AI to handle the tedious bits. This feeling didn't really hit until about turn 150 of my first game, i.e. when the scale of my empire really started to outstrip that of any previous empire game.

**PDifolco** · March 13, 2003, 06:50

Grumbold,
Sense of greatness WAS in Moo1, you managed 40-50 systems (abstracted, no planet management), and fleets of THOUSANDS of (tiny/small...) ships were common !
It was lost in Moo2 due to the added planetary mm and the individual ship-to-ship combat and CP system (bad idea IMO)...
Don't think I'll even try Moo3, will get GalCiv instead

**Grumbold** · March 13, 2003, 09:58

MoO3 outstrips MoO1 imho, but you're right that MoO1 was the best space game for that before. If I still had a system I could run it on with sound I'd still play it a lot today. Instead it gets only an occasional dustoff.

I would say though that it did encourage if not insist upon micromanagement. It took turns and turns of tweaking the industry/pollution sliders to squeeze the best development out of every new planet. Nothing will run itself if you don't bother.

Desperately trying to explode 1,000 enemy ships with bombs or bioweapons before they reach your planet is great fun and something I really missed from MoO2 which I was hoping MoO3 would return. Sadly the realtime combat with no special weapon systems squashed that.

**DarthVeda** · March 13, 2003, 13:08

Anybody know why the developers chose that during planetary bombardment, the troop count would never budge?

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