Worst fears coming true: Quarter to Three Review

[leiavoia]

Well some things that Tom said are true. however, it all pretty much boils down to a lack of feedback. it's true there isn't much of that in MOO3. everything from the tech descriptions to space combat. you don't know what techs do, you don't know what weapons are effective, and it's hard to tell what impact your government is having.

However, i think Tom was having a really bad day. he couldn't find a single thing good to say about the game! but look at all the other reviews out there. most are very positive.

So, it can be a decent game, but i hope for a patch/xpack that the game gets a total information overhaul and the player gets more specific feedback.

[gunnergoz]

Re: Worst fears coming true: xxxxxxxx Review

Originally posted by darcy
Reviewer's summary:

http://www.quartertothree.com/reviews/moo3/moo3-1.shtml

Call me Kassandra, but this is what I suspected all along. Apparently the original Moo3 design, the Empire Simulator, was a huge, unplayable numbercruncher. And it's still there, but in order to make it playable, there are now lots of helper AIs that play the game for you.

The original MOOs, like Civilization, worked because the basic rules were simple, the output was in little intuitive icons and, most important, it was clearly defined and easy to understand how each player decision affected the empire. Good games are all about choices, and choices only matter when you see the impact they have on the game.

If Tom is right, Moo3 will be a failure, because QS failed to understand what made Moo1+2 great. The chance for Tom being right is unfortunately high. Look at his other reviews; you will notice that, among other things, he exposed both Dungeon Siege and Morrowind as what they are.

OK. You're Cassandra. Happy now?

Sheesh. Argue for your fears, and sure enough they're yours. The answer is simple...don't waste your money buying a game that you've feared all along that you won't like. Your opionion has been formed for a long time...this "review" just crystallized your thoughts, that's all.

As to the issue of choices and seeing their impact upon the game...did it occur to you that you might need some patience and discrimination to perceive the impact upon this particular game? It looks to me like MOO3 is not a simple, straightforward game, unlike it's predecessors. I welcome the change...if I want to play a simpler game, I still have the earlier versions to fall back upon. I don't know about you, I'm only speaking for myself here, but I'm ready for a new, deeper and more challenging game.

Thanks for sharing and have a good time playing MOO2.

[Araanor]

Complex but with helpers, sounds great frankly. EU2 is just about the other complex PC game I've had the pleasure of experiencing these past years.

[Hierophant]

He gave Deus Ex a bad rating, though, too. So he isn't always right...

[vee4473]

Originally posted by Oniz
Who died and made Tom the guru of all games? All the other reviewers seem to be happy with the game, althought it has the "long learning curve", they have come to enjoy it. Maybe "Tom" hasn't just played the game enough, or didn't bother to actually learn to play it. He only talked about pressing the turn-button, maybe he should've actually done something.

I thought his whole point was that the AI didn't LET you do much of anything, and if it did, it would over ride some decisions...


And why berate the guy because he is going against the flow...What makes anyone think that he DIDN'T take the time to learn the game, and that after a while he still considered it a mass of confusing numbers?


It's just his opinion.

I like his genre discription though.."bloated strategy" heh

[rhofman]

Confront your fears. FACE the unknown.

Enough cliches. Gunner got it right, if you expect this game to be too complex too be fun it will be.

Personally I'm buying it Tuesday and I plan to eat, sleep and s*** MOO3 for at least a week. If I can't get into it after a week then I'll know I made a mistake getting it. Until then I don't really care what one reviewer out of ten says. (I would reconsider if 9/10 said it)

[Corentor]

I personally think this review is a good thing.

A big red warning flag telling everyone that if you are looking for MOO 2 in a new package, go home.

A shame that so many people on the IG boards are bashing TChick's review like crazy.

[CharlesBHoff]

I remember how some board games where very complex with complex rules all the player have to inpert what the rules meant and do all the additson and substact from the dice roll to figure out the outcome. I than glad we have computer to do most that work now. It was the complex of many board games and all the complex figureing out the outcome of each dice roll that kill most board games today. First there will be no board game verson of MOO3 or MOO2 there might be than board game verson of MOO1.
In the real world we have peroid of great wealth and peroid of great depression where wealth disappear. As in the real world there is no easy answer to these events they
just happen.
Right now some state and local government are raiseing tax to balance their books. Their cannot cut back on public service anymore. Cal govonor is raiseing taxes, he could balance the book by closeing all state pirson, laid off all state law enforcement people and laiding off all state worker and cutting back on all social programming. But he donnot for than very good reason. Do all the above will not work as what are you going to do next year when the ecomoncy take than real nose drive.

[Sarxis]

Well, he's just one review, and a very opinionated one at that. Maybe the game was just too complex for him.

[RolandtheMad]

Re: Worst fears coming true: xxxxxxxx Review

Originally posted by darcy
among other things, he exposed both Dungeon Siege and Morrowind as what they are.

I liked Morrowind! It was one of the better RPGs I`ve played lately. There was no point to Dungeon Siege once you beat it once though.

A pretty damning review.. hrmm..

[darcy]

Tom on Morrowind:

The game doesn't really hold up over the long run -- there are too many holes in the system and the difficulty level sort of plateaus and then rolls over -- but the ride is great while it lasts.

See, he liked it too... kinda.

And Dungeon Siege was a horrible no-brainer. What is there to do except clicking 'end turn', erm I mean, the potions from time to time?

[Arnelos]

Dungeon Siege was a waste of time and money. My poor roomie bought it last year and spent only a few days playing it before he realized it was crap

As for Morrowind, I was completely addicted to that game for about a month and a half before it finally started waning in value.

Then I started a new character from stratch who went for a very different playstyle than my first character and joined different factions and it was almost like playing a completely new game.

After 2-3 months of play at Morrowind, I STILL hadn't explored even a 1/3 of the map.

I still go play Morrowind now and then when I'm not busy with stuff here on 'poly... it's giving me something to do while waiting on MoO3

As for this review... I agree with some posts above. It sounds like the review hit on a very good point, but one that offers an illustration about the reviewer: It's a d--- complex game and many people won't like it for its level of complexity - that's a fair comment. Apparently the reviewer was one of those people

As for me... I'm a grognard. I'll buy it

[rhofman]

Forgive my ignorance but what is a "grognard"?

[RolandtheMad]

Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba
Maybe the game was just too complex for him.

Everyone is saying this over on IGMOO.. it is like the hypothetical **** hit the fan over there.

I`ve been cautiously watching the development of Moo3 over a long time and generally fence sitting. I`ll spare you the usually dramatic 'I`m cancling my preorder!' and just say that this does not bode well at all for the game.

Also, one thing that everyone seems to forget about when they say 'it was too complex for him' is that this guy won at least twice...

[peacenik]

My understanding is that reviewers usually play games on fairly easy settings so that they can experience game features in a minimal amount of time. It would simply take to long to master a game like this on a tough setting that challenges the AI. Note that most of his comments on the AI are either tactical or deal with its control of his empire. His review (and two wins) is consistent with a quick, unhappy experience with MOO3 on 'easy' or 'normal'. Its safe to say he won't be back for more!!!!