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Worst fears coming true: Quarter to Three Review

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  • Worst fears coming true: Quarter to Three Review

    Reviewer's summary:
    In many ways, this is the anti-Sid Meier school of design, a throwback to the complex wargames where much of the calculations are running under the hood and it's your job to just shut up and move the pieces around, leaving all those numbers alone to do their own thing. There's no clear correlation between your actions and whatever outcome the game eventually spits out, so you're left with the feeling that you might as well just click the 'turn' button a few times and see what happens. Three hundred turns later, the game's over.

    There's no denying Master of Orion 3 is a complex game. Complexity itself isn't a bad thing, but poorly organized complexity can be the kiss of death. What's worse is poorly organized complexity that serves as a substitute for gameplay. This is exactly what you get with Master of Orion 3, an indecipherable pile of dense self-absorbed data that completely fails to understand why we loved our first MOOs.


    Call me Kassandra, but this is what I suspected all along. Apparently the original Moo3 design, the Empire Simulator, was a huge, unplayable numbercruncher. And it's still there, but in order to make it playable, there are now lots of helper AIs that play the game for you.

    The original MOOs, like Civilization, worked because the basic rules were simple, the output was in little intuitive icons and, most important, it was clearly defined and easy to understand how each player decision affected the empire. Good games are all about choices, and choices only matter when you see the impact they have on the game.

    If Tom is right, Moo3 will be a failure, because QS failed to understand what made Moo1+2 great. The chance for Tom being right is unfortunately high. Look at his other reviews; you will notice that, among other things, he exposed both Dungeon Siege and Morrowind as what they are.
    Last edited by MarkG; February 22, 2003, 06:49.

  • #2
    Well that is one review and I have no clue if they know A from B. My son sent me their review and it was very positive.
    As I recall lots of people did not like Moo2, so what does it mean? Nothing to me. I will judge for myself and if I like, that is all I care about.

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    • #3
      Who died and made Tom the guru of all games? All the other reviewers seem to be happy with the game, althought it has the "long learning curve", they have come to enjoy it. Maybe "Tom" hasn't just played the game enough, or didn't bother to actually learn to play it. He only talked about pressing the turn-button, maybe he should've actually done something.

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      • #4
        What's New

        February 21, 2003

        60: review: Master of Orion 3

        July 8, 2002

        Early Hours: Warcraft III
        :60 review: Gore
        :60 review: Ico (PS2)
        :60 review: Eternal Darkness (GC)


        somehow i fail to give much credit to someone
        a) with such "often" updates
        b) apparently likes a big ugly eye as part of his logo
        Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
        Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
        giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

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        • #5
          His planets kept going into unrest? And yet he had masses of overabundance of some resources? Sounds like he didn't even bother to fiddle with the macromanagement, just tried to micromanage his way through everything and gave up when the viceroys overruled some of his choices. (Now whether or not them doing that is a good thing or not, the jury's out for me until I play it, but that's another story).

          I did find the review informative, though. It shows how boring and uninteresting the game can be if you don't spend the time to figure out WHAT the impacts of your actions are. The uninformative tech descriptions are probably a very bad idea on QS's part. Even those of us with the dedication to look under the hood will be met with deliberate obscurity. I'm afraid the "we don't even WANT you to fiddle with these numbers" impression may be a bit accurate. Too much of the going for the "eXperience" factor and not enough letting us know what the various options DO for us to form strategy. If we don't know what the options DO, how are we supposed to choose among them?

          QS might be advised to listen to this reviewer's complaints and criticisms with some care. If they've surrounded themselves with diehards and yes-men, they may not have put the product through as many rigors as it needs.

          I sure hope they will be there, AND LISTENING, for the long haul, like Firaxis has done for Civ3. The MOO3 team may have some disdain for Civ3, but the Civ patching process on clearing up bugs, closing loopholes, and rebalancing weak elements of the game, has been very good. If QS will be there for the long haul, dedicated to polishing things up, that will go a long way toward me buying more titles from them. Even though it sounds like their bug-squashing process has been supreme, the game balancing process can't possibly reach its peak until the game has been in tens of thousands of hands and under so many pairs of eyes, to be put through the ringer. Serious issues are bound to emerge. And how they are dealt with will be remembered, for good or ill.


          - Sirian

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          • #6
            I think MOO3 will be than good game if you take the time to learn how to play it. If all his planet went into unrest by him not useing the macro mangement tool which unlike Civil 1 and civil 2 actural do than every good job. You canot micro-mangment MOO3 at all except in the very beginning of the game.
            By the year 2100 AD over half of the world population will be follower of Islam.

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            • #7
              He only talked about pressing the turn-button, maybe he should've actually done something.
              And why? He won more games than he lost with his, erm, strategy.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Oniz
                Who died and made Tom the guru of all games? All the other reviewers seem to be happy with the game, althought it has the "long learning curve", they have come to enjoy it. Maybe "Tom" hasn't just played the game enough, or didn't bother to actually learn to play it.
                Tom Chick has been reviewing and writing (at Computer Gaming World among other places) about strategy games for at least 10 and maybe 20 years.

                As much as I hope what he says isn't true, I have a sneaking suspicious it maybe.

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                • #9
                  Funny that he loved EU, which to my mind did the same thing: much of the calculations are running under the hood and it's your job to just shut up and move the pieces around, leaving all those numbers alone to do their own thing. There's no clear correlation between your actions and whatever outcome the game eventually spits out, so you're left with the feeling that you might as well just click the 'turn' button a few times and see what happens. Three hundred turns later, the game's over.

                  But then, I never took the time to learn how to play EU. A lot of people did, and really enjoy. Looks like MOO3 may be the same type of game.
                  "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
                  "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
                  "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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                  • #10
                    Some guys like simple games so this is just 1 man's opinion take for instance E.U, it got 50% score in PCGAMER but i loved it.

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                    • #11
                      Actually what disturbs ME is that he WON two games....

                      -P

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                      • #12
                        There are actually a lot of similarities in the detail of the reviews, including this one. The bottom line is we won't figure out even the basics of this game by playing it a few times, which some strategy fans will really dislike. Others will love the complexity. My bet is people that take the time to learn the basics will be rewarded by nuances and options that we've always wanted in TBS, but it could be a little ugly getting there.

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                        • #13
                          It's a pretty scathing review. Honestly, he couldn't find a single thing he liked about it? I'd like to see his review of Galactic Civilizations when that comes out.

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                          • #14
                            Tom has a lot of cred with me. I'm now gonna wait for feedback on this board, from players I know did well in Moo/Moo2. And I was all set to splash on first sight.

                            A well-written, funny and informative review. Let's hope it's either not accurate or represents that elusive quality called taste that there's no accounting for.
                            "The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000)." - chegitz guevara on the history of the USSR.
                            "I think the real figures probably are about a million or less." - David Irving on the number of Holocaust victims.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sirian
                              QS might be advised to listen to this reviewer's complaints and criticisms with some care. If they've surrounded themselves with diehards and yes-men, they may not have put the product through as many rigors as it needs.
                              I sure hope they will be there, AND LISTENING, for the long haul, like Firaxis has done for Civ3. - Sirian
                              I agree with some of the other posts that this is just one review - and we honestly haven't seen that many reviews yet. But like other serious strategy gamers, I sometimes think of myself as a "rare" breed these days. Most people don't like to slug through a learning curve at all (hence the 1st person shooter games which require coordination but a minimum of strategizing) which is why we won't see Mo03 come out on XBox or GameCube - the market isn't big enough.

                              From what I've seen and heard, I'm glad QS didn't give in to the popular trend of stunning graphics and heart-pounding adventure while sacrificing the heck out of strategy.

                              I concur with Sirian, though. And here is the scary thing about some of the gossip regarding QS ability to produce patches and expansion once the game is out (this week). Hopefully QS and IG realize the long-term benefits of supporting this game - it sounds like it is great as is...with some further tweaking in patches/upgrades, Mo03 will likely be EPIC and be played until the real world ends

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